Transcript
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Hello everybody and welcome to the Fandom Portals podcast, the podcast that explores how fandoms can help you learn and grow.
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This week we have been looking at the movie the Crow, made in 1994, that stars Brandon Lee and Michael Wincott and Rochelle Davis.
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It was directed by Alex Proyas and written by James O'Barr.
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Now we've already recorded part one of this particular topic, so if you're interested in that, go and check out our catalog.
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It should be the one directly underneath this episode that you found yourself on.
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We usually split our episodes into two parts.
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With the first part, we talk about all the different things about the production of the film, any interesting facts, brash and I really dive into the community's feelings and our feelings about the film.
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And then part two is where we go into our popcorn perspectives, our MVTs and our real deals, where we analyze the film and really talk about its impact on us and the community and what we have learned and grown from the film about.
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So we want to thank Semeliso for suggesting this one.
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They're from our Threads community and, yeah, they suggested this and it was on our community watch list and then it was voted for by over 125 participants.
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So we really want to thank you guys for doing that as well.
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If you haven't already found out, the Crow is a vengeance slash love story that sees a protagonist where, the night before his wedding, musician Eric Draven and his fiancee are brutally murdered by members of a violent gang.
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On the anniversary of their death, eric raises from the grave and assumes the mantle of the Crow, a supernatural avenger.
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Now Brash is here with me today.
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How are you going, brash?
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How are you, zulf?
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Very, very good.
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Thank you Very, very good.
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We're going to dive into our Popcorn Perspectives, which is a newer segment, and this is one where we take a character, we look at how they have moved through the movie and we analyze their development and growth and we express to our co-host how this character should be viewed in your opinion and any meaningful connections that your character has or can make in the movie.
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So what character did you choose for today's Popcorn Perspectives, brash?
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I chose Sarah, very good, and I chose Albrecht, the detective of the movie.
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So I think you can go first with our analysis on the popcorn perspectives, brash, let's learn all about Sarah.
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Sarah.
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So in the comics, if you read the comics, she is actually not a big character at all.
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She's actually a minor character.
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Still the daughter of Darla.
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Darla's a drug addict sleeping with a fun boy.
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Still the same.
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Eric actually meets her outside of Bum Boy's apartment and they don't actually previously know each other.
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They don't hang out, but in the movie, I think, to sort of build some sort of connection, they've given her a bigger role.
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Um, saying that she used to hang out with, uh, uh, shelly, shelly and Eric.
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Um, shelly, shelly and Eric, big friend of Shelly and Eric, obviously, and they used to hang out because she didn't want to be around her drugged up mother or her annoying boyfriend.
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They kept a lot of the same.
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Well, the character is very much similar to the comic book out, which was good.
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He's actually listed as a do-gooder, sarah a do-gooder, sarah A do-gooder.
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As a lot of 12-year-old children are.
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Yeah, I have to say, usually I hate kids in movies.
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Yep, it's been documented here on the podcast.
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Yep, most of the time.
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Sometimes they're really good.
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Most of the time I find them to be annoying and, yeah, annoying.
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For context, if this is your first listen.
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There has been one incident where there is a child in a movie that Brash thought was relevant and important for the plot, so this is good to hear.
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A second, yes, a second.
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Well, that's not going to have us up.
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Okay, she's good.
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However, like I still find I wish they had done more with her because used her more efficiently, because they have her in, like you see sort of a little bit of backstory from the flashbacks flashbacks, oh right, the word I'm thinking of but you see her a bit in the flashbacks, like hanging out with them and everything like that.
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But realistically, she, you see her all throughout the movie, just like somehow, and I don't even know, I honestly can't remember how but all of a sudden the bad guy's like ooh, you're still that girl, because that girl's close to him yeah because they've seen them together, like once, and it's like she should have been more of like a one that had more of a presence, or maybe like they were together at some of the like.
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Maybe she ran into Tintin and Eric was able to jump in and help her before and tell her Ryan or something before, just like used her more with Eric as the crow Yep To give them that connection away from the past.
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Yeah, yeah.
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It's just not.
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It just didn't really sit with me just at the end when, like, she gets kidnapped and Eric has to go to Sarah.
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So it was kind of a bit too convenient for you.
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Exactly.
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Yeah, like Sarah was there, used as a plot device to make Eric go and have that final confrontation with Top Dollar, who really didn't have anything to do with Shirley's murder but as, as a result of him controlling the gang, it kind of also tied to the fact that Eric Eric was involved with with Sarah as a fatherly figure and Top Dollar took her, so he then had to then go and do the right thing, which sort of played into his humanity and like, yeah, and realistically she didn't really.
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Yeah, it's they, they just they did bump her up and make her a bit more of a prominent character, which I thought was good, and I had her narrate, which I thought was good, but they bumped her up to use her as a hostage.
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But you didn't, god, you didn't.
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I don't think you got enough emotional tie for that to be overly meaningful.
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Yeah, so you have their, their path where they were close, and Eric's just a good guy, so he wants to save kids.
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So they could have really used any kid and it probably would have been the same thing.
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I think for me she's a really important character for me.
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I think so because she like without her, she's like the bright spark in this utterly putrid world which is just, you know, the arsehole of Detroit.
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City on fire yeah, city on fire and she's just this, this sort of hopeful, bright light.
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Um, who's who's kind?
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Uh, she represents, like the, the innocence and love and connection that eric has to his past life, because he and shelly obviously took kindness on this orphaned child, indicating to audiences that there is some good in this world.
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However, the bad is really overcoming the good, because Eric and Shelley have now died.
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However, that still lives on through Sarah, who, you know, grieves for these two individuals and is really the only one in the movie that does and is grieving for Eric and Sarah, and she also kind of starts to remind eric of who he was before death, as he's kind of seeing her because he's still like, kind and loving and protective of her.
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To the, to the scene where we're talking about when she she goes in front of traffic and then eric rescues her and he says that famous line after she says that it's always raining, he says, obviously it can't rain all the time.
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So she does have a few of those awesome moments that really build Eric's character, but I think I agree that she doesn't really have much character growth of her own.
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Yeah, she's more there to serve Eric's character and be a representation of his humanity and connection to planet Earth.
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Because if you look at Eric the crow, he is doing exactly what the bad guys are doing in this movie.
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He is going around killing people just like the bad guys are doing Blowing shit up, yep, violently, creating chaos and crime.
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The only thing that really makes the audiences relate to Eric more so than they do the gang members, is his connections to the human characters and his showings of kindness.
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There's also the scene where he gives the engagement ring to her.
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Yeah, and in that scene, you know, he says I think she would have loved for you to have it, showing that you know, he's keeping the memory of both of them alive and Sarah is also responsible for keeping the memory of him alive as well.
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Giving back her mother.
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Yep Sarah is also responsible for keeping the memory of him alive as well, giving back her mother, yep exactly.
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Extracting the heroin out of her arm.
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Yep, and that isn't even related to his path of vengeance at all.
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That's just him being protective of Sarah.
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And yeah, some criticisms of the film say that that detracts from the mission of the crow.
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But some other people say that's what really sort of grounds the character of Eric and makes him really likeable, is because that character of Sarah exists.
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But I can see what you're saying because she can't, she doesn't really do a lot on her own kind of thing.
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Yeah, and on that fact, the crow for me is more of an avenger, more than someone who's just out for revenge.
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It's more avenging Yep, that's true as well and like a part of avenging is also helping the people that have been hurt by that and impacted on it.
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Yeah, great, and so Sarah being impacted on it, helping her mother, giving Sarah back her mother and giving her someone to love again because she's lost two people that she loved, is sort of helping out Sarah and they're getting sort of giving something back to Sarah to hold on to that being said as well.
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I think um Rochelle Davis played the character really well, because I know in the 90s a lot of children actors were just really cringy.
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But she, she really they still are.
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I think they still are I think less so.
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I think rochelle davis did a great job.
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Like, for me, the scene where she's in the the room with her mom and she's cooking her eggs and it's the first nice thing she's done in ages and she's obviously skeptical of that.
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Yeah, that's, I love that, yeah.
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And then when she goes to tip the eggs in and she says I never like this motherly shit anyway, and then she's's like Whoa whoa, whoa.
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No, you're doing good.
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But I really liked how whoever it was, either the person in the script or the director actually made it.
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So she was that little bit skeptical because it gave a little bit more realism to her character, Cause, even though she's getting everything that she hoped for in the form of a mother who's actually there and wants to be there for her she you've stuffed me around here for a long time.
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There's almost like a realistic interaction.
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But then eventually, obviously, diving into that and seeing that scene, you know that eric did a good job in in making, uh, that connection happen, so leaving some goodness in this world instead of just leaving a path of death and destruction and exploded cars and multiply stabbed bodies in his wake, um, which I think was was good.
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So so if you were to do you think the movie would better without the character of Sarah, or do you think she deserves a spot in the movie?
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no, no, no, it was a lot better with her in it.
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I just wish she they gave her a little bit more yep.
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So maybe instead of because she does ground him, but I think maybe it was sort of like one big grounding I reckon it should have been eventual, like he was slowly event like so falling down that path of just destruction and killing, she should have been slowly also just trying to build him back up to that climax of going hey man, remember who you used to be?
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yeah, well, I think event um, the way that it was supposed to be in the movie initially was that every time eric or the crow did something that wasn't related to his acts of vengeance, to to be vengeful or to uh pay back the act, the terrible act that was done, to shelly.
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Anytime he deviated from that path he was supposed to get more mortal and weaker, where in this version of the movie they kind of made it that his spirit guide of the crow when that got hurt he lost his powers.
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Yeah, so it was almost like a and I heard this from the director's commentary as well it was almost like a subplot that was eventually discarded.
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But they kept the parts in the film where Eric was doing good for others as well, because they felt like it added depth to his character.
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But I definitely see what you mean about Sarah.
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She's not really deep in that regard.
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Yeah, she's useful for the movie.
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She's good for the movie, but Iris doesn't think she was given enough in the movie.
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Yeah, and I think that she does also fall into that trap that we see a lot of female and children characters fall into, where they end up being the thing that needs to be rescued by the it's still good, but it's still fine.
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But I don't think there was enough reason for them to even go after her as a like the crow would have came for you anyway, you didn't need it.
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He would have said come get me bitch, and then he would have for you anyway, you didn't need a hostage.
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Yeah, he said come give me a bitch and then he would have exactly.
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I think so.
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Yeah, yeah, just even finding out that he was the leader of those individuals and the fact that he's the one that told them to go to that added stakes and emotional ties into the climax for the audience there.
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all right, let's move on to my dude.
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My guy is called daryl albrack.
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He's played by ernie hudson and he and he's also one of the most honest figures in this corrupt city.
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He's weary and he's been demoted more times than you could imagine and we enter on him being the one that investigates the scene of Eric and Shelley's brutal murder.
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And you know he was unable to stop it, just like he's unable to stop a lot of the crime in the city.
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But for some reason he holds this guilt, uh, with him and that guilt sort of drives his interactions with eric as it goes through.
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He's really the only character that doesn't fear eric either.
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When he first meets him, like he doesn't recognize him at first, but he suspects and he doesn't seem as like a mindless ghost, but he sees him as somebody who's got a mission that needs to be completed because he knows the individuals that he's offing killing are bad people.
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Um, so he can see that these are tied to some sort of vengeful act, and the manner in which they're being killed as well is not just like a stab and run murder where somebody's trying to steal your wallet.
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It's not a mugging.
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These are like vengeful killings which usually you know would set somebody off.
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But not old, not old Albrecht, not this decent cop from Detroit.
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So he's not one of the cops that kind of ignore the crime.
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He is deeply affected by Eric and Shelley's deaths, which in turn allows our audience to also see that there's somebody in the city that cares for that kind of thing and wants to fix it.
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So his arc really comes about when he sort of doesn't become an enemy of Eric and the Crow, but he comes as someone who cares when nobody else did.
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And he has heaps of pivotal scenes with Eric, the most poignant of which is where Eric places his hands on Albrecht's forehead and he's able to then relive Shelley's suffering, which kind of doubles Eric down on his mission.
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But also he's able to see that Albrecht stayed with her the whole time so she wasn't alone when she eventually passed, which Eric was extremely thankful for and it really strengthened their bond and he was really sort of bonded over the fact that somebody else understands Eric's pain.
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So that was his role.
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It was almost like the confidant or the respected ally and you know it transformed their relationship from that of skepticism like do I really believe that this is what you're doing to that mutual respect.
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And another one of my favorite scenes is when you know he meets him in his apartment and he's singlet and he's dropped and he's still wearing his hat.
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He's completely vulnerable in that moment.
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He's still got his hat on.
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Yeah, he literally just takes it off and just puts it down.
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He's like, oh, he's playing dress up here.
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But Ernie Hudson just brings this genuine approachability to the character as well.
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And I think his previous roles he was in Ghostbusters and he was the likable one in that too and I think he was just to be that character that everybody can sort of latch onto, eric included where there is some goodness in this city, similar to Sarah.
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So he's like the symbol of justice.
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He's that grounding presence as well.
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He helps Eric maintain his humanity amidst his superhuman or supernatural rage in this incident as well.
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And you know he's probably one of the only people to look at Eric and Shelley and see their love story as well behind it.
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You know he's like a witness to not just the tragedy of them, but he saw how much they loved each other and he knew that that was something that really kind of needed to be protected in this world.
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So that's why he harbored that guilt, and I love that he came in the end and helped defeat the bad guys to his own detriment as well, obviously being shot in that moment and did he quit smoking in the end of that?
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Is that how that yeah, I think I would go.
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Eric goes give him a smoke.
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He's like I think I'm going to quit, yeah, yeah.
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So he, or every single character in that movie, or even, maybe even over Eric.
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He has to have the best lines in the entire.
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Like every single one of his dialogue is just gold, like one of my favorite ones is when he's talking to Torres, the other detective, and he's like what the hell do you call that?
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He's like I call it blood detective.
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I suppose you'll write it up as graffiti.
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The sassy has that scene too.
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He's just like graffiti and he waves his cigarette in the air too.
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He knows the system he works in and that was really, really playful.
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The way that he played that off too.
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Like the system he works in is corrupt as all heck.
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And him and Eric like their first interaction.
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When he's like please don't move.
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He's like, um, I thought police always said freeze.
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He's like, well, I'm the police and I say don't move.
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So I, yeah, that's so good and he was like well, I'm dead and I do move.
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I'm dead and I move.
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Yeah, that was.
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That was one of the other things about this movie.
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They kind of trod the line between a really gruesome, dark film, but then it had moments like this that sort of brought you out of it.
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Another one I'm thinking of is when Eric sort of frozen for the cops after he goes and takes out all the gangsters in the mob area there and then he just does this little jig off scene and he just fires at him.
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That kind of thing really harkens back to the fact that Eric was a showman and he was like a rock star performer in his life and that's sort of still coming back into his dead character as well, which I like.
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It would have been a completely different movie if they just zombified him up and he was just straight eyed, straight edged killer.
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But yeah, I think both of these relationships, these ones between albrecht and sarah, played a part on the main character.
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Uh, I definitely think that albrecht's character was pivotal in in the movie, in developing eric as well.
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So two great character arcs for us to dive into.
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That was awesome.
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All right, let's go to our mvts is where we discuss the most important thing we learned from the media that we have watched.
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It could be something that extends our knowledge or something that we can apply to our daily lives.
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It might be something as simple as a piece of dialogue that stuck with us, a thematic moment or a moral lesson.
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I'm gonna go first, if that's all right with you.
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Brach, respond by me.
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My mvt for this one is that love is an eternal force and it grows beyond death.
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A lot of people think that this movie of the crow is a avenging story, but I think it's a love story.
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I think it's a romantic and spiritual story about the unbreakable force that transcends death and that is eric and shelly's love.
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What do you think about that?
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you said.
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You said it was corny, and I agree that it's corny, but I like it.
00:19:31.876 --> 00:19:33.621
I do like it, hmm, hmm.
00:19:34.222 --> 00:19:34.442
Okay.
00:19:34.442 --> 00:19:41.478
So the reason I believe this is because Eric's journey throughout this whole film is fueled by love.
00:19:41.478 --> 00:19:57.553
I think it's not fueled by revenge at all, because you know, there was that piece of narration at the start that said when bad things happen, or when people die, a crow takes them to the afterlife, but if their spirit is too heavy and burdened by something that is left behind, then they return to complete that act.
00:19:57.553 --> 00:20:14.441
And I think the thing that Eric was brought back to do was not to avenge his own death, it was to avenge what happened to Shelley, the one that he loved, because if it was, shelley obviously had some misgivings as well, so she also could have been brought back in this instance if that was the way that the crow worked.
00:20:14.441 --> 00:20:26.340
But Eric was the vanguard for protecting the love that both of them had and therefore he came back, brought back by the crow, in order to fight for that love.
00:20:26.340 --> 00:20:46.703
And the reason I say this as well is because when he pushes himself out of the grave, the very first thing that he does unlike the Terminator who comes in James Cameron's movie and just literally goes and tries to find Sarah Connor and kill her and exact his mission the first thing that Eric does in this movie is he mourns the loss of Shelley.
00:20:46.703 --> 00:20:49.009
So you can see him writhing in pain in that graveyard.
00:20:49.009 --> 00:20:51.394
He knows that something has happened that's very supernatural.
00:20:51.394 --> 00:20:57.635
And then he goes back to try and relive and find out where he once lived, where Shelly was.
00:20:57.635 --> 00:21:01.103
He wants to re-experience the moments he had with her.
00:21:01.103 --> 00:21:06.501
He's grieving the loss of that love so he's still feeling it even through that.
00:21:06.501 --> 00:21:09.816
You know it's guiding him beyond death and guiding him beyond the grave.
00:21:09.816 --> 00:21:18.076
To do that, and you know, I think throughout the story, at the very end of this, eric's revenge really doesn't free him at all.
00:21:18.076 --> 00:21:23.372
I think the thing that frees him is the peace that comes from reuniting with Shelley.
00:21:23.372 --> 00:21:37.699
At the end and you can see it's the first time that there's a vibrant and bright color in the entire movie is when he's, you know, know, about to go back into his own grave and he sees Shelly walking towards him, backed by golden light, looking beautiful in a white gown, and they embrace and they kiss.
00:21:37.699 --> 00:21:39.991
And that is when he finds his ultimate peace.
00:21:39.991 --> 00:21:54.462
Not through the killing of everybody, because you know he was happy and joyful there, but he was really at peace when he reunited with Shelley in that moment, before he collapses in that grave, and Shelley's spirit really does sort of appear.
00:21:55.144 --> 00:22:08.272
So I think that my most valuable takeaway for this one is that love defies a lot of things and that the crow is really not just a story about vengeance and revenge, but it's a story about love, and love defying death as well.
00:22:08.272 --> 00:22:16.880
You know, I I think Sarah says it best when she says buildings burn, people die, but love real love lasts forever.
00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:25.577
And yes, it's corny, but I love it and that's why I really like this movie, because I think it's more than just that dark gothic undertone of vengeance.
00:22:25.577 --> 00:22:26.791
There's a love story behind it too.
00:22:26.791 --> 00:22:27.092
Bruh Yep.
00:22:27.853 --> 00:22:28.594
Yeah, I see that.
00:22:28.594 --> 00:22:28.834
I see that.
00:22:28.834 --> 00:22:29.776
Well, there's a love story behind it too, bro.
00:22:29.776 --> 00:22:30.856
Yeah, yeah, I see that.
00:22:30.856 --> 00:22:31.117
I see that.
00:22:31.117 --> 00:22:35.242
Well, my MBT is that it's okay to kill anyone and get revenge on them.
00:22:35.463 --> 00:22:36.444
Deleting, deleting, deleting.
00:22:37.910 --> 00:22:39.951
No, I'm keeping that in.
00:22:39.951 --> 00:22:51.359
No, my MBT I think is more of mine is of that redemption, sort of part of it, the revenge that turns into redemption.
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:57.005
So at the start it's all murder, mayhem, stab that guy, blot that shop, cut off that dude.
00:22:57.005 --> 00:22:58.326
What does he cut off?
00:22:58.326 --> 00:23:00.467
He cuts off his finger, Finger, finger.
00:23:02.789 --> 00:23:06.714
That's off the shop owner's finger, as opposed to the eyes that you know Bailing cuts off all the time.
00:23:06.734 --> 00:23:18.917
Oh, micah, yeah yeah, scoops out the eyes, yeah, it's all killing, mayhem, and then slowly it's oh shit, I don't always have to do something bad, I can help other people out.
00:23:18.917 --> 00:23:27.509
Like he literally has a power to take away the, the drug, like to expel the drugs from Darla.
00:23:27.509 --> 00:23:47.558
Like he has that power, he can help a lot of people and I think him doing so and with Sarah's help, it goes from just being a full-on revenge tour to it being a okay, I can stop these guys and help out people as I go, still kill the guys.
00:23:47.558 --> 00:23:49.454
He still wants to get that revenge.
00:23:49.970 --> 00:24:09.273
Well, I think, especially after seeing the vision through Albrecht's mind when he has a look at Sari in the hospital, what happened to her, and after actually hearing all the things that happened to her, because, realistically, last time he saw her she was still alive.
00:24:09.273 --> 00:24:17.461
In the waft when you got shot out the window she was still alive barely very damaged, but alive.
00:24:17.461 --> 00:24:32.239
Um, so then having to come in terms of that, like he'd be angry after all the things he'd been at and after all they, the bad guys, kept taunting him with about what they did to her, and, yeah, and that was a bad idea to do that, I think, to any normal person.
00:24:32.239 --> 00:24:35.222
Supernatural or not, would you know it?
00:24:35.242 --> 00:24:36.305
would send you violently.
00:24:36.345 --> 00:25:06.415
Yeah, it would send you on a path that not necessarily would be good, but I think, yeah, going through it all, latching onto that humanity and that redemption to okay to stop the bad guys, redemption to okay to stop the bad guys, but to make sure that I do it and help the people, or help as many people as I can, so saving Sarah, like, realistically, he was just Dark Avenger coming out of the graveyard, he could just not give a shit about Sarah yeah a relationship wouldn't exist at all yeah
00:25:06.476 --> 00:25:16.569
it would just be, and those movies sell as well, by the way like, as you said, like you get up, his main purpose of being revived was to kill these people.
00:25:16.569 --> 00:25:18.476
Then he would just go do that.
00:25:18.476 --> 00:25:19.880
There wouldn't be any of this.
00:25:20.451 --> 00:25:26.829
Going back to the life they humanized him, yeah, yeah there would be helping out Dyla and getting sure Sarah has a mother.
00:25:26.829 --> 00:25:43.303
Again, helping out the police officer, showing like, showing him like his gratitude and saying you're a good guy, you're a good cop, when he's constantly demoted and put down by the other like that douchebag detective, and I think it's just yeah.