March 19, 2025

DragonHeart (1996) – Part Two: The fall of King Einon and Bowen's Heroes Journey. Nostalgic Fantasy and the value of Persistence.

DragonHeart (1996) – Part Two: The fall of King Einon and Bowen's Heroes Journey. Nostalgic Fantasy and the value of Persistence.
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Dragons 90S Movies Fantasy Movies Cult Classic

Episode Summary:
In this episode of The Fandom Portals Podcast, Aaron and Brash continue their deep dive into Dragonheart (1996), exploring Einon and Bowen’s character arcs, the Spoiled King vs. Hero’s Journey tropes, and how the film’s acting performances impacted its legacy.

The Reel Deal segment dissects Dragonheart’s plot structure, score, and how nostalgia affects the modern viewing experience. Plus, Aaron and Brash discuss fan mail from a listener in Virginia and take a moment to reflect on the difference between childhood nostalgia and adult rewatches.

Topics:

Popcorn Perspectives: Analyzing Bowen & Einon’s character arcs
Einon’s Role in the Spoiled King Trope
Why Einon Is One of the Most Hateable Villains
David Thewlis’ Performance as Einon – Over-the-top or just right?
Bowen’s Hero’s Journey & Character Evolution
Does Bowen Make Sense as a Hero or Antihero?
The Draco Connection & Why It Works Emotionally
How Dragonheart Balances Dark Themes & Lighthearted Moments
Reel Deal: Breaking Down Acting, Plot Structure & Score
Acting Performances – Who Stood Out the Most?
Why Sean Connery’s Voice Performance Is So Impactful
Plot Structure – Strengths & Weaknesses in Dragonheart
Is Bowen’s Arc Too Rushed?
Musical Score – Why Randy Edelman’s Soundtrack Is a Fantasy Classic
Most Valuable Takeaway: Nostalgia vs. Reality in Rewatching Films
Sign-Off & Next Episode: Gabriel (2007)


Key Takeaways:

  • Einon is one of the most hateable villains in 90s fantasy films, and David Thewlis played him to perfection.
  • Bowen’s hero’s journey feels rushed, making his character arc a little inconsistent.
  • Sean Connery’s voice performance gives Dragonheart an emotional core that elevates the entire film.
  • The score by Randy Edelman is one of the strongest elements, adding nostalgia and emotional depth.
  • Nostalgia can impact how we view films years later, making Dragonheart a beloved but flawed classic.


📢 Apple Podcast tags: Dragonheart, Sean Connery, Dennis Quaid, fantasy movies, medieval films, cult classics, CGI history, motion capture, movie trivia, film history, action adventure, 90s movies, visual effects, geek culture, Fandom Portals Podcast, Geek Freaks Network


Contact Us:
Website: https://www.fandomportalspodcast.com/


Instagram: instagram.com/fandomportals/?locale=en
Threads: threads.net/@fandomportals
Email: fandomportals@gmail.com
Letterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/fandomportals




Chapters

00:00 - Welcome to Fandom Portals and Fan Mail

04:25 - Dragon Slayers and Scammers: Meeting Bowen

07:11 - Character Analysis: Einan the Tyrant King

25:29 - Character Analysis: Bowen's Hero Journey

32:41 - The Real Deal: Acting Performances

44:00 - Plot Structure and Musical Score

49:05 - Most Valuable Takeaways: Nostalgia and Perseverance

57:09 - Rating Dragonheart on the Fandom Board

Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:00.179 --> 00:00:06.262
Hello and welcome to the Fandom Portals podcast, the podcast that explores how fandoms can help us learn and grow.

00:00:06.262 --> 00:00:21.469
This podcast is part two of our Dragonheart Runs, episode 28, part two, and in this episode you will find out all about Aynan and Bowen and their character arcs, including the Spoilt King trope and the Hero's Journey trope.

00:00:21.469 --> 00:00:43.829
We also look in our Real Deal segment about the acting, the plot structure and also the score, to see what makes Dragonheart a memorable and nostalgic film, and in our most valuable takeaways we talk about persistence, and we also talk about the difference between a childhood viewing of nostalgia and an adult rewatch of a movie that has definitely become a cult classic.

00:00:43.829 --> 00:00:50.542
We also got some fan mail this episode that we read out, so if you are a person who would love to send us some fan mail, make sure you do so.

00:00:50.542 --> 00:00:56.621
Our email is fandomportals at gmailcom if you have a movie recommendation for us.

00:00:56.621 --> 00:01:00.130
So if you want to give us feedback, we would love to hear from you.

00:01:00.130 --> 00:01:03.844
So that email address is fandomportals at gmailcom.

00:01:03.844 --> 00:01:07.533
We hope to hear from you and we hope you enjoy this episode.

00:01:22.579 --> 00:01:25.084
Hello everybody and welcome to the Fandom Portals podcast.

00:01:25.084 --> 00:01:25.906
I'm here with Brash, as always.

00:01:25.906 --> 00:01:27.049
How you going, brash Fading stuff.

00:01:27.049 --> 00:01:27.751
I'm buying a lightsaber.

00:01:27.751 --> 00:01:28.894
He's buying a lightsaber.

00:01:28.894 --> 00:01:31.388
He's scrolling the Timu addiction plate.

00:01:31.388 --> 00:01:36.090
Guys, he's buying one of those dog vacuum heads that we were talking about last week.

00:01:36.280 --> 00:01:46.114
Guys, last time we spoke to you we were talking about Dragonheart, the 1996 now cult classic movie that is starring Dennis Quaid and Sean Connery and also Dina Mayer.

00:01:46.114 --> 00:01:55.447
It is directed by Rob Cohen and if you haven't already, definitely go and check out our part one, where we go and talk about all the CGI elements and how they brought Draco the dragon to life.

00:01:55.447 --> 00:01:58.025
So if you're curious about that, definitely go and check it out.

00:01:58.025 --> 00:02:13.664
Now, dragonheart for those of you that don't know is a movie about the last dragon and a disillusioned dragon slaying knight who must unite to stop an evil king who was granted partial immortality.

00:02:13.664 --> 00:02:16.770
In this episode we're going to be looking at some characters in the name of bowen and iron and we're going to be also looking at our real deal segment and our most valuable takeaway segment.

00:02:16.770 --> 00:02:22.727
But before we do that, guys, at the end of every single episode we always ask you to send us feedback.

00:02:22.727 --> 00:02:24.430
And you know, somebody, know somebody actually did brash.

00:02:24.430 --> 00:02:25.872
We got some feedback Feedback.

00:02:25.872 --> 00:02:27.254
Yeah, we got some Feedback.

00:02:27.254 --> 00:02:32.569
We got some fan mail, so we're going to read it out right now for you guys.

00:02:32.569 --> 00:02:42.024
And if you're a person who wants to like this absolute legend, send us some feedback, send us some fan mail, then you can do so at our email address, which is fandomportals at gmailcom.

00:02:42.024 --> 00:02:44.948
Now, this person's name is Mike and they're from Virginia, usa.

00:02:44.948 --> 00:02:47.532
Ready One, two, three, hi Mike.

00:02:47.532 --> 00:02:48.073
Hi Mike.

00:02:48.073 --> 00:02:50.786
How you going, mike, virginia USA.

00:02:51.180 --> 00:02:57.008
He writes to us and says I found your podcast in the last month or so and I have since listened to all of your episodes.

00:02:57.008 --> 00:03:00.979
I found your discussions insightful and I appreciate the wide range of topics.

00:03:00.979 --> 00:03:02.865
I consider myself a pop culture geek.

00:03:02.865 --> 00:03:05.372
I love comics, tv games, movies, etc.

00:03:05.372 --> 00:03:10.412
As a movie lover, I find great pleasure in introducing people to great, lesser known films.

00:03:10.412 --> 00:03:19.030
In this vein, I would like to suggest that you watch and maybe review slash discuss, one of my favorite movies, which is called Suicide Kings.

00:03:19.030 --> 00:03:27.545
It has an amazing cast, including Christopher Walken, dennis Leary and a post-Roseanne slash, pre-big Bang, johnny Galecki, to name a few.

00:03:27.545 --> 00:03:32.926
I've often brought it up in conversations, but I don't think I've ever met someone who had seen it.

00:03:32.926 --> 00:03:35.372
If you haven't seen it, I hope you'll give it a try.

00:03:35.372 --> 00:03:38.555
Either way, I thank you for your work you put into each episode.

00:03:38.555 --> 00:03:43.165
Your efforts are greatly appreciated and I wish you the best of success in your podcast.

00:03:43.165 --> 00:03:44.748
Thank you very much, mike.

00:03:44.788 --> 00:03:48.514
It is great to hear some fans sending us in some emails.

00:03:48.514 --> 00:03:54.727
So if you are a person like Mike and want to send us some emails, do so, which is fandomportals at gmailcom.

00:03:54.727 --> 00:03:55.409
Can't thank you enough.

00:03:55.409 --> 00:04:02.324
His suggestion of Suicide Kings is definitely going to go on our community watch list for our Community Portals Picks episode.

00:04:02.324 --> 00:04:03.425
But yeah, I was just blown away.

00:04:03.425 --> 00:04:04.187
We got some fan mail.

00:04:04.187 --> 00:04:10.549
That is absolutely awesome because, yeah, as a podcaster, sometimes you release this stuff and it's like sending it out into the void to never get heard ever again.

00:04:10.549 --> 00:04:13.825
But we got one, so it's like landing your first big fish.

00:04:13.825 --> 00:04:16.206
Thank you, mike from Virginia, usa.

00:04:16.206 --> 00:04:18.172
You're awesome, mike, thank you, thank you.

00:04:25.480 --> 00:04:35.666
This episode we're definitely still talking about dragon heart guys and this is the analysis episode we're going to be giving you some deep dives on the characters, uh, some of the uh insights, and we're definitely going to be rating it at the end to tell you whether we think this is a movie that is going on our fandom portals on board or not.

00:04:35.666 --> 00:04:38.644
So we're going to kick it off with our portals perspective segment.

00:04:38.644 --> 00:04:41.192
All right.

00:04:41.192 --> 00:04:49.353
The popcorn perspectives is a segment where the hosts take one character from the movie each and analyze their development and growth throughout the movie.

00:04:49.353 --> 00:04:57.754
We express to our co-host how this character should be viewed in your own opinion and the meaningful connections the character arc has made along the way.

00:04:57.754 --> 00:05:03.464
So, brash, your character was Aynan, mine was Bowen.

00:05:03.464 --> 00:05:07.706
Do you want to go first, because I feel like there is a lot we could talk about in terms of Aynan.

00:05:08.447 --> 00:05:10.833
Yes, nice, I'll go first Aynan.

00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:13.766
He is played by David Thouis.

00:05:13.766 --> 00:05:17.192
Yeah, difficult last name, difficult last name Thouis Thouis.

00:05:17.192 --> 00:05:21.002
It sounds like you're saying Lewis with a lisp, lewis, lewis.

00:05:21.663 --> 00:05:26.793
Lewis, lewis, yes, david, amazing actor, also plays um.

00:05:27.742 --> 00:05:28.264
Professor Lupin.

00:05:28.324 --> 00:05:33.425
Professor Lupin, the werewolf character from wow.

00:05:33.425 --> 00:05:34.488
Thanks Ace, thanks Ace.

00:05:34.488 --> 00:05:41.288
Um, yes, plays Professor Lupin, the werewolf character in Harry Potter also, as mentioned in the last episode.

00:05:41.288 --> 00:05:42.913
Um, he was also in Legends as well.

00:05:42.913 --> 00:05:46.802
I love Legends it's like one of my favourite movies of all time, but in the last episode he was also in Legends as well.

00:05:46.802 --> 00:05:47.103
I love Legends.

00:05:47.103 --> 00:05:48.362
It's like one of my favorite movies of all time.

00:05:48.362 --> 00:05:52.766
But, yes, aynan, the character of Aynan, the character that is so easy to hate.

00:05:52.985 --> 00:05:53.505
Absolutely.

00:05:53.505 --> 00:05:56.307
I think that the best part about him is how much you can hate him.

00:05:56.307 --> 00:05:57.269
Oh yeah.

00:05:57.269 --> 00:05:59.470
Just throughout the entire movie, even his younger self.

00:05:59.470 --> 00:06:01.630
I think, yeah, that's where it all started.

00:06:01.630 --> 00:06:05.834
Hey, because you know that it starts off with, obviously, bowen and Iron and having that duel.

00:06:06.113 --> 00:06:19.793
And you can see he's a little bit like as much as Bowen is trying to be like hey, if you want to be an awesome, cool knight, you have to follow the code and everything like that and be heroic and be nice and all that kind of jazz.

00:06:19.793 --> 00:06:22.504
But straight off the bat you can tell he's a little brat Kronk.

00:06:22.504 --> 00:06:23.867
I don't know what's his name, let's call him.

00:06:23.887 --> 00:06:26.454
Kronk, we know it's Vrok or Brock or something like that.

00:06:26.473 --> 00:06:33.968
Yeah, brock as soon as he rocks up and is like, hey, man, we're at war and your father's gonna destroy this whole entire village, he's like, ooh, bloodshed.

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And then fucks and buggers off.

00:06:39.725 --> 00:06:40.826
It's At all.

00:06:40.826 --> 00:06:42.788
He's just a terrible, terrible person.

00:06:42.988 --> 00:06:43.209
Yeah.

00:06:43.269 --> 00:06:44.130
But then you see him.

00:06:44.130 --> 00:06:48.115
He sneaks onto the battlefield and finds his father who's just got who?

00:06:48.115 --> 00:06:51.749
Here's a nitpick, Pick the nit.

00:06:51.749 --> 00:07:05.033
Why would the king, who's leading this army, say it, ride into an area by himself, with no other soldiers, just to get mobbed?

00:07:05.173 --> 00:07:05.654
and killed.

00:07:05.654 --> 00:07:08.084
Pure neomaniac.

00:07:08.084 --> 00:07:09.447
I 100% agree.

00:07:09.447 --> 00:07:11.291
I 100% agree, yes.

00:07:12.021 --> 00:07:18.949
If Brock should have sepulchred himself or some shit because he failed as a knight?

00:07:18.949 --> 00:07:22.088
Because who lets their king go off by themselves?

00:07:22.288 --> 00:07:27.896
It's definitely a it's an underling job to go and burn the houses of the peasants that you're now marauding.

00:07:27.896 --> 00:07:28.117
He's like.

00:07:28.137 --> 00:07:28.418
You know what?

00:07:28.418 --> 00:07:30.461
I'm just going to ride off by myself and just settle.

00:07:30.461 --> 00:07:31.882
I'll blaze all these houses.

00:07:31.882 --> 00:07:41.247
You know what that's going to make people come out Exactly and then kill me because I'm by myself, because I didn't bring protection at all.

00:07:41.788 --> 00:07:51.249
But then from that we also get the first little picture of like we were kind of hinting at the fact that maybe this guy's a little bit of a brat, maybe this guy's a little bit boiled, you might say.

00:07:51.249 --> 00:08:02.389
But after this sort of scene, when his father is mobbed and tragically killed by the peasants we see Einan just become absolutely evil in my opinion.

00:08:02.730 --> 00:08:03.372
Goes for the crown.

00:08:03.372 --> 00:08:05.940
The father's still alive tries to hold on to it.

00:08:05.940 --> 00:08:07.745
He's like no, die, die, it's mine.

00:08:07.745 --> 00:08:10.312
Give me the crown, it's mine which begs the question for me.

00:08:10.862 --> 00:08:16.019
You know, bowen's been training this, this young gentleman, this prince, for all his life, supposedly.

00:08:16.019 --> 00:08:28.446
Uh, and he and his mother eventually then go to beg the dragon for his, his life and his forgiveness and to say, yes, he's a knight of the old code and he's following the old code and Bowen's teaching him the old code and he's such a good person and he's such a good knight.

00:08:28.446 --> 00:08:35.855
But you can see that there is that element of bloodshed in him, you can see that he's bratty and from 30 seconds with the character, we can tell that he's a bad egg.

00:08:35.875 --> 00:08:43.066
Yeah, 100%, but they still go ahead and and Dra, like his bat, yep, and they're like, oh no, it's going to be good.

00:08:43.066 --> 00:08:44.488
I swear to God, we'll make sure he's good.

00:08:44.508 --> 00:08:44.868
Swear it.

00:08:44.868 --> 00:08:46.308
We'll make sure he's good.

00:08:46.308 --> 00:08:46.809
Swear it.

00:08:46.809 --> 00:08:47.951
He must swear it.

00:08:47.951 --> 00:08:49.091
Swear it, yeah.

00:08:49.293 --> 00:08:51.914
It's like, yeah, I'm going to be good, cool, but not for me.

00:08:51.914 --> 00:08:53.136
Here's half my heart.

00:08:58.104 --> 00:09:07.293
Exactly, and you know the actor that played Ayn performing thing in that whole segment and even for iron and for the whole time, the worst thing that is performing in regards and surrounding iron is his wig.

00:09:07.774 --> 00:09:24.307
what an atrocious piece of headgear if, if you want to make you hate someone having a really bad haircut that just and like just seeing it makes you angry, it's probably a good way to set up a bad guy, because you just already hate them just because of their hair.

00:09:24.488 --> 00:09:26.172
Yeah absolutely um.

00:09:26.172 --> 00:09:30.741
One thing that was funny with me, though, is when those characters were first introduced, the two characters of bowen and einan.

00:09:30.741 --> 00:09:47.275
Usually a way that um directors subconsciously pitch you one side or the other is they dress the character that's supposed to be evil in dark colors and the character that's supposed to be good in light colors, and when we first are introduced to these two characters, einan's wearing whites and golds and bowen's wearing blacks and silvers.

00:09:47.275 --> 00:09:51.695
So there's that sort of flip, and you also are introduced to the scene where they're.

00:09:51.695 --> 00:10:08.890
They're, you know, training each other, but bowen's being quite um, we'll say playful, but he's actually teasing him, and at one point he even like slaps him in the in the face there, and he's supposed to be this educational figure in his life, but he's really just humiliating him in this moment and it's just like why did this kid end up becoming a brat and hating everybody?

00:10:09.019 --> 00:10:11.048
Oh, it's because everybody's been shitting on him his entire life.

00:10:11.048 --> 00:10:20.587
But yeah, I think that was really interesting that they did that, whereas they put the good character in lighter colors and the oh sorry, the good character in darker colors and the evil character in the lighter colors.

00:10:20.587 --> 00:10:37.660
And I think that was intentionally done, because otherwise we're giving these hints that einan's a little bit of a prick, but we're we're not fully realizing it and we kind of have to believe that draco would believe that there is some good in him, because otherwise we'll be looking at this dragon that's been living for hundreds of years and wonder what a stupid choice he's making and why.

00:10:37.660 --> 00:10:51.809
So yeah, I think that that happening early on in the movie was good, but literally like 10 seconds after he leaves that dragon's cave and he swears on the old code that he will be an honorable man and he'll do justice to the heart.

00:10:51.809 --> 00:10:52.932
That's what he wants to do.

00:10:53.533 --> 00:10:54.475
I want to build up a castle.

00:10:54.475 --> 00:10:56.664
That's going to take a lot of people, a lot of manpower.

00:10:56.664 --> 00:10:57.727
I don't care.

00:10:57.727 --> 00:10:59.392
Yep, Ah, okay.

00:10:59.392 --> 00:11:01.726
Well, he's immediately just gone from.

00:11:01.726 --> 00:11:06.581
I swear I'm going to be good to Exactly.

00:11:06.600 --> 00:11:08.186
He's immediately just gone from.

00:11:08.186 --> 00:11:11.514
I swear I'm gonna be good to yeah, exactly right, and I yeah, I think he in that moment that's when we're like, ah, here we go.

00:11:11.534 --> 00:11:13.000
Yep, yeah, the complication has begun.

00:11:14.182 --> 00:11:19.285
He's already failed yeah, so let's go into a little bit more with iron and what happens to him later on in the story.

00:11:19.285 --> 00:11:23.745
Um, how does david continue to play this character in a manner that absolutely makes us hate him?

00:11:23.745 --> 00:11:24.726
I mean?

00:11:24.746 --> 00:11:27.072
mean he just doesn't change.

00:11:27.072 --> 00:11:36.129
It's like he's a bratty child and then grows up to be a bratty child, but just with more power, yep.

00:11:36.129 --> 00:11:42.951
And then he has his cast of goons with him, one including his I can't remember his name.

00:11:43.312 --> 00:11:45.892
Brock or Fenton Fenton, fenton's Jason Isaacs.

00:11:45.892 --> 00:11:54.134
Jason Isaacs this was his first speaking and proper sort of role in a movie and he does it amazing.

00:11:54.355 --> 00:11:54.976
He actually does.

00:11:54.976 --> 00:11:55.577
He does it amazing.

00:11:55.658 --> 00:12:01.621
I love his character he plays a snake in the grass really well, yeah, he's the villain in the Patriot and he is absolutely cutthroat.

00:12:01.621 --> 00:12:06.565
That performance in the Patriot is 100% stellar from Jason Isaacson.

00:12:06.644 --> 00:12:08.365
And there's Captain Hook too in Pan.

00:12:08.365 --> 00:12:16.110
Yes, no, his cast of goons he has with him definitely adds to his menace.

00:12:16.110 --> 00:12:22.914
Yeah, because Brock likes to hurt people and Arnon takes joy in that.

00:12:22.914 --> 00:12:26.076
So he gets Brock to hurt as many people as possible.

00:12:26.076 --> 00:12:27.597
He enjoys it.

00:12:27.597 --> 00:12:37.908
Fenton plays to his ego, sort of ramps him up to do horrible things, thinking that Aynan enjoys this, like taxing the roads.

00:12:37.908 --> 00:12:52.629
Yeah, aynan enjoys the dastardliness of it all, so Fenton hypes him up to shoot the arrow to kill Kara's father and Fenton's there egging him on to do it.

00:12:53.379 --> 00:12:55.388
Oh yeah betting him and gambling with him and things like that too.

00:12:57.265 --> 00:13:14.613
It plays off of it and makes him even worse of a person, because the people around him at that time are pretty much doing it to benefit themselves, but in doing so, just continue to make Ayn a worse and worse and worse person.

00:13:14.613 --> 00:13:14.873
Yeah.

00:13:15.340 --> 00:13:24.416
He's continually being validated in his poor behavior is how you would say it in a school setting, in a school setting yes, he's continually being validated by the people around him and that's how you see bullies arise is if there's a group mentality by the people around him.

00:13:24.416 --> 00:13:30.284
And that's how you see bullies arise, as if there's a group mentality, and they're continually just sort of egging people and getting what they want.

00:13:30.284 --> 00:13:48.009
Basically, and being the king, he would definitely get exactly what he wants, which is why he butts heads so much with Kara, because he obviously wants to have her hand in marriage and she's obviously very well opposed to that for a lot of good reasons and very, very headstrong and very determined to thwart any sort of plans that he has.

00:13:48.460 --> 00:14:06.511
He's also not very bright and I don't know if he's a little bit just subconsciously self-depreciative, because I remember a scene in the movie where he looks to Kara after you know he's killed her father and he says to her you know he's going to take her and put her in the dungeons and things like that, and he says, you know, I'll have to think up a fate for you that's worse than death.

00:14:06.511 --> 00:14:13.586
And then in the very next scene he's got her in the dungeon bedroom, like you know, dungeon bedroom in a castle, okay, but he's got her in the dungeon bedroom.

00:14:13.586 --> 00:14:24.116
And in the very next scene he says I'd like that he's an absolute worm.

00:14:24.177 --> 00:14:25.820
Realistically, that is a bit worse than that.

00:14:27.302 --> 00:14:29.086
That is exactly a bit worse than that, I know.

00:14:29.408 --> 00:14:36.466
And the thing is it's such he's such an interesting character in that when we see him he's a snob as Brad getting trained.

00:14:36.466 --> 00:14:46.332
And then we cut 12 years in the future and him and Bowen have a fight and he pretty much bests Bowen.

00:14:46.332 --> 00:14:56.941
Yep, he goes from the kid that Bowen was training, that was useless, to being able to go toe-to-toe with Bowen Yep.

00:14:56.980 --> 00:14:59.989
to never finding victory in the dirt, to finding victory in the water.

00:15:00.009 --> 00:15:20.679
Yeah, yeah, but that sort of like huh huh for someone who is now became king and probably, probably didn't really have anyone who would actually train him properly because they wouldn't want to either hurt him or offend him for fear of getting put, made a slave or killed.

00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:23.063
How do you get so good with the sword?

00:15:23.225 --> 00:15:27.692
yeah, no, no, I 100% agree with that, because he's also very good with a bow.

00:15:28.073 --> 00:15:30.163
Yeah, and with a bow.

00:15:30.163 --> 00:15:35.868
I can probably understand the bow, because he probably goes hunting and that's a big ego boost when you kill prey.

00:15:35.888 --> 00:15:36.812
He probably won't.

00:15:36.812 --> 00:15:39.025
He's probably the best with a bow in the movie after Brother Gilbert.

00:15:39.025 --> 00:15:40.390
Yeah, brother Gilbert, holy hell.

00:15:41.851 --> 00:15:49.029
It's like Robert Vincente, when he's got that arrow, that the homing arrow just always hits the target.

00:15:49.070 --> 00:15:49.692
Always hits the target.

00:15:49.692 --> 00:16:02.807
But yeah, I think that he's, even when he is reintroduced to the dragon Draco, and that dynamic with Draco and Aynan is very important for the movie as well, because you know, Draco says it.

00:16:02.846 --> 00:16:31.566
He says he put his faith in humanity because he thought that this would be a way for his kind and humankind to sort of interact, especially, if you're thinking about it as well, if the dragon sort of saves the king, that's a very to a normal person and a good person you'd think, okay, well, that is a creature that I can bestow some honor on, that is a creature that you know, we can have this relationship with, but obviously completely forgets about the dragon of draco and his kind, goes into hiding pretty much and, yeah, dragons are pretty much forgotten about.

00:16:31.605 --> 00:16:40.163
So there is that shame that draco would feel as a as he trusts this individual and the word of the, the word of the mother and bowen, and yeah, I just think that he's just a very vile character.

00:16:40.163 --> 00:16:42.912
But I do like what you said before about how he does not change and from the start to the end of the movie he's a very vile character.

00:16:42.912 --> 00:16:49.148
But I do like what you said before about how he does not change and from the start to the end of the movie he's a very two dimensional villain, almost cartoonishly evil as well.

00:16:49.760 --> 00:16:59.212
I reckon he like from all the whole movie he is the same, but this is where I think splitting this movie into two would have been beneficial.

00:16:59.212 --> 00:17:17.613
So once he learns of the dragon and learns that he's pretty much immortal as long as the dragon lives, he sort of switches up from being that almost cartoonish villain to being a lot more evil and sinister.

00:17:17.613 --> 00:17:19.834
Killing his own mother, yes.

00:17:19.834 --> 00:17:24.657
Then capturing the dragon and going to war with the village.

00:17:24.657 --> 00:17:34.619
It sort of switches up from him being this almost carefree villain to being something a little bit more on the serious note.

00:17:36.825 --> 00:17:38.630
He seems to just get more menacing.

00:17:39.059 --> 00:17:47.093
Yeah, that's our transition into the third act in the end act where he almost becomes the warlord king, where he gathers his forces, gathers his army, and he's like no mercy.

00:17:47.093 --> 00:17:50.851
He doesn't care if his men die or if all of his people hate him.

00:17:50.851 --> 00:17:54.529
He just literally wants the things that he wants and he wants the conquest.

00:17:54.529 --> 00:17:58.211
So he'll go and he'll burn the forest and he'll go and he'll say scatter or die.

00:17:58.211 --> 00:18:03.288
There's no unity amongst his troops, it's literally every man for himself, but fight for the king.

00:18:03.288 --> 00:18:07.595
And then you know, as soon as it gets bad he'll piss off and everybody else will die in his wake.

00:18:07.595 --> 00:18:08.896
So he can be protected.

00:18:08.896 --> 00:18:18.645
But and even, as you were saying, you know being betrayed in that manner by his mother who hired the dragon hunters, so to speak, and him figuring that out as well.

00:18:18.645 --> 00:18:22.509
He really becomes malicious in that manner and he says one of the best lines in the whole movie.

00:18:22.509 --> 00:18:23.730
That's very, very quotable.

00:18:23.750 --> 00:18:28.573
He's like how unmotherly of you yes, how unmotherly and in his voice too.

00:18:28.573 --> 00:18:33.797
Yeah, like that, it's just, it's just so, it just hits the right mark.

00:18:33.797 --> 00:18:35.037
Yeah, because he doesn't.

00:18:35.057 --> 00:18:47.926
He doesn't really get to play on the immortal part of the fact that he finds out he's immortal because of the dragon yeah, there's only really about I don't know five to ten minutes of the movie where he's really playing and banking and using strategically his, his immortal status.

00:18:47.926 --> 00:18:51.710
Do you think, like we were talking about how he doesn't change and he doesn't really have an arc?

00:18:51.710 --> 00:18:54.383
But do you think his arc is that he just falls deeper and deeper down that hole?

00:18:54.624 --> 00:18:56.288
oh I think like you don't.

00:18:56.288 --> 00:19:02.286
It doesn't really seem like that until the very end, and then it's like, oh, I would have liked to seen more of this development.

00:19:02.286 --> 00:19:06.611
Yep, yep, but you don't get that chance because but yeah, I think he's definitely.

00:19:06.912 --> 00:19:08.232
He is a simple villain.

00:19:08.232 --> 00:19:09.714
You know he's evil.

00:19:09.714 --> 00:19:15.954
For this reason, he's definitely the king slash, spoiled prince archetype who just wants what they want the whole time.

00:19:15.954 --> 00:19:20.343
And I think for this movie it kind of works, because you don't really need more complications around that.

00:19:20.343 --> 00:19:28.651
In a family friendly fantasy film, you need to know the person that you want to hate and you need to hate them for a good reason, and I think that he definitely pulls that off.

00:19:28.651 --> 00:19:36.017
So I think, yeah, I think Guinan's a very hateable character, but I think he's hateable for Good reason.

00:19:36.017 --> 00:19:37.685
Yeah, well, yeah, for the Right reason.

00:19:37.705 --> 00:19:38.588
You're supposed to hate him, yeah.

00:19:39.161 --> 00:19:45.079
All right, let's go on to Bowen Bow.

00:19:45.079 --> 00:19:46.343
To Bowen Bowen is the exact opposite of Ion.

00:19:46.343 --> 00:19:47.486
He's the antithesis of our villain character.

00:19:47.486 --> 00:19:49.250
He is the hero and as a result, he kind of goes on a classic hero's journey.

00:19:49.250 --> 00:19:51.403
The hero's journey archetype is used a lot in writing.

00:19:51.403 --> 00:20:03.469
It was made by Joseph Campbell and it goes through seven to nine stages of a hero's typical journey where in the start of the movie he's definitely introduced to us in the ordinary world is the trope that it's called where he actually goes.

00:20:03.469 --> 00:20:10.454
And you know you, us in the ordinary world, is the trope that it's called where he actually goes.

00:20:10.419 --> 00:20:22.442
And you know you can see him training Ainen, and he's a knight and he's very enamored by the old code, he's got those Arthurian values that we talked about and you know he's holding these idealistic beliefs before he eventually goes into this transformative state and the action that transforms him is basically Ainen.

00:20:22.442 --> 00:20:27.285
His ward is injured and he has to go and then, you know, save him through the dragon.

00:20:27.285 --> 00:20:32.365
However, ainen goes out and, as we spoke about before, he's immediately, you know, wanting to enslave the village.

00:20:32.365 --> 00:20:37.247
But for Bowen, he doesn't see that tyranny until he gets the heart.

00:20:37.247 --> 00:20:48.213
So he attributes the dragon's heart to witchcraft and as a result of that, that's his shattering in terms of his idealistic views and beliefs.

00:20:48.213 --> 00:20:50.974
So he has to start going down a new path.

00:20:50.974 --> 00:20:58.839
Or that call to action is where he's really trying to get the dragon's heart with his mother and to save Ainen.

00:20:58.839 --> 00:21:08.691
And then he's got that shattering event where he realizes that the ward he was actually trying to protect and the ward that he's been working with this whole time is actually an absolute prick, yeah, yeah.

00:21:08.691 --> 00:21:24.875
So, um, you know, when he, when he confronts einan, when he's about to burn out kara's father's eyes, and you know, he has that embracing moment where he's head to head with einan and he actually sits there and he says you know, uh, you know what, what's happened to you?

00:21:24.875 --> 00:21:26.141
You're bewitched, stop this.

00:21:26.141 --> 00:21:37.782
That's when you can see that he has that absolute turning moment where his complete beliefs in the code or in the order of anything is absolutely gone and he starts to walk onto a new path.

00:21:37.782 --> 00:21:43.942
He refuses the call and becomes a dragon slayer, which is the complete opposite of what his character was before.

00:21:43.942 --> 00:21:53.651
These honor bound beings of old magic and old code vibes in the dragon is something complete that he literally wants to eradicate and destroy from from this world.

00:21:53.651 --> 00:21:57.830
So he, he ends up becoming more of an anti-hero than a hero.

00:21:58.721 --> 00:22:04.594
And this was the interesting thing for me, because I reckon his shift in into this part, like where he he's the dragon slayer.

00:22:05.019 --> 00:22:18.730
I think he me, because I reckon his shift in into this part, like where he's the dragon slayer, I think his shift after meeting draco, which is another part of the hero's journey, meeting the mentor I think that happened way too quick in this movie and he, he really so he seems like a character that really just wants to believe in the old code but he's just been hurt and disillusioned by it for so long.

00:22:18.730 --> 00:22:43.988
And I think that once he met draco and he actually had a conversation with draco and they sort of bonded after being in each other's mouths for so long and you know, um, yeah, the the two days or whatever, or the three days that they spent doing that, I think that he sort of that's when he transitioned again into actually taking up the mantle and trying to move towards, um, actually realizing the truth about Aynan.

00:22:43.988 --> 00:22:49.086
Because, yeah, I think for you, does he present as a as a hero to you or an antihero?

00:22:49.086 --> 00:22:50.365
What do you think about Bowen?

00:22:50.807 --> 00:22:55.192
See, this is where my remembering of this movie wavers.

00:22:55.192 --> 00:23:03.221
So I forgot about the whole fact that he went around and actually killed dragon the middle, the middle act of the story.

00:23:03.221 --> 00:23:16.990
Yeah, I, from when I was cause I hadn't watched it since I was young my memory was that he was always befriended by Draco and for some reason in my head, initially I thought Bolin was the one with half the dragon heart.

00:23:16.990 --> 00:23:26.156
And they went around and they did the fake dragon killings for money, yep, until they're called up for a higher purpose, to defeat a tyranny.

00:23:26.156 --> 00:23:31.525
When I rewatched it I realised this was definitely not the case, definitely not, definitely not.

00:23:31.525 --> 00:23:43.420
And like for me, bowen, I think, is a character I least like yep, more so because it's just because I agree that everything moved too quickly.

00:23:43.420 --> 00:23:47.890
So I guess I understand he thinks dragons did it.

00:23:47.890 --> 00:23:49.866
He starts killing dragons because he thinks dragons did it.

00:23:49.866 --> 00:23:53.810
At no point was he like hmm, maybe I should stop what Iron's doing.

00:23:53.810 --> 00:23:57.651
Instead, I'll just kill every dragon because I'm angry.

00:23:58.119 --> 00:24:04.910
Yeah, and he was looking for the one, the one, the one dragon that did it, and then realized later on that if he had done that anyway, he would have killed Iron anyway.

00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:09.067
But yeah, I think it and then realize later on, if you had done anyway, we killed on anyway.

00:24:09.067 --> 00:24:12.865
So, um, yeah, but yeah, I think that, um, that that whole middle act where he's, he's going around slaying the dragons, that's the one, that, that's, that's the bit.

00:24:12.865 --> 00:24:23.708
That's a kind of off taste for me, because you know he's supposed to be this old knight that's following the code of valor and, yes, he does throw that away, but then he's, he's changing his character years yeah, yeah, yeah, he's changing.

00:24:23.728 --> 00:24:34.847
His character is that he goes and he hates dragons and he wants to kill all the dragons, but then he immediately goes in league with one to scam everybody out of money, and that was not something that he was ever indulging in, ever, like he didn't care about money.

00:24:35.914 --> 00:24:38.126
He'd do it because and then he did it to spite Aynet.

00:24:38.126 --> 00:24:40.941
Yeah, yeah, exactly, he's like.

00:24:40.941 --> 00:24:47.549
Oh, he's like, he's like any way to get the money from the crown, yeah, he just says that line.

00:24:48.211 --> 00:24:55.852
I've forgotten it exactly, but I think it's something like it's not the pay, it's the pleasure yeah, pleasure of Of actually finding and killing the dragons.

00:24:55.873 --> 00:25:05.551
So yeah, all the pleasure of killing dragons, but when he's talking about taking the gold he's like, oh, I don't mind taking the gold out of Iron's pocket.

00:25:05.551 --> 00:25:10.173
So are you still trying to track down these dragons and things?

00:25:10.173 --> 00:25:12.640
For Ain's sake because it seems like you don't like Ain now either.

00:25:12.721 --> 00:25:24.902
anyway, the contradictory thing for me as well is in the third act of the movie, when he actually goes and tries to defeat Ain and raise a rebel army against Ain, he's literally raising the same rebels as he just conned with this dragon ploy before.

00:25:24.902 --> 00:25:32.021
Like he's going through and in the three or four villages that he conned he's saying come and fight with me and let's get the oppressor, who's Aynan.

00:25:32.021 --> 00:25:43.125
But the only oppressor that they really see is the guy that came in and killed the dragon quotes, who didn't really kill the dragon to be fair, though, there he didn't actually get paid by trying to use the woman as the payment.

00:25:43.266 --> 00:25:48.535
Yes, that's true, kara ends up being the payment, but yeah, 100%.

00:25:49.563 --> 00:25:59.963
And also is Bone immortal, because in 12 years he hasn't aged a day he has not aged a day, whereas they even aged up.

00:25:59.963 --> 00:26:10.542
Brock, he was old and he went grey and old, yep and Bone's, just like oh, I'm the same as I was 12 years ago.

00:26:10.542 --> 00:26:14.221
And now I've got Kara here, who was a child when I was what?

00:26:14.382 --> 00:26:19.184
maybe in my late 20s, 30s, yeah, and now we look like we could possibly be the same age Exactly.

00:26:19.184 --> 00:26:20.644
Yeah, no, I agree.

00:26:20.744 --> 00:26:23.428
And he's like, oh, and now I might be in love with this Kara.

00:26:30.539 --> 00:26:31.299
Yeah, I definitely got those vibes too.

00:26:31.299 --> 00:26:32.836
You know, I think that those sorts of things is why I do like Bowen as a character.

00:26:32.836 --> 00:26:34.054
But I definitely sort of gravitate towards heroic characters.

00:26:34.054 --> 00:26:44.106
But he has a little bit of muddiness in the middle which I think is supposed to replicate the refusal of the call of action and then him actually going and realizing and crossing the threshold into becoming the hero again.

00:26:44.106 --> 00:26:45.806
But I just think it got too muddy.

00:26:45.806 --> 00:27:02.882
It was almost like they didn't have the correct direction for him or they didn't have a plan to get him towards the end, or they had the beginning and the end sorted in their brain and the middle was just like let's just have some fun building the relationship between Bowen and Draco where they can both go and just play shark's tail 10 years before it actually happened, see what I would have liked.

00:27:02.922 --> 00:27:19.182
I would have liked an Anakin Obi-Wan style of mentor student where Arnon was being mentored by this knight who follows the old order, but a young knight Like.

00:27:19.182 --> 00:27:21.269
Maybe they could have got like a younger actor.

00:27:21.269 --> 00:27:24.307
So Arnon in that was probably like what 10 to 12.

00:27:24.446 --> 00:27:25.128
10 to 12.

00:27:25.128 --> 00:27:25.790
Like age, yeah.

00:27:26.500 --> 00:27:35.648
And they could have had like a 19, 20-year-old, like only a few years older knight, who probably is only a recent knight, but a knight of the old order.

00:27:35.648 --> 00:27:53.771
And as like his first sort of knightly sort of thing is to train the young prince who, because for a knight to be training the prince it wouldn't be like a big deal, whereas if it was like, say, a knight who was like the king's right hand man, that's sort of a big deal.

00:27:53.771 --> 00:27:59.839
Knight, he's training the young prince boy how to use a sword.

00:28:00.661 --> 00:28:09.376
I really like that, because then that would give us reason to believe that Bowen is ignorant enough to think that Aynan was not evil.

00:28:09.577 --> 00:28:09.698
Yeah.

00:28:09.799 --> 00:28:11.686
Whereas we're looking at Dennis Quaid playing Bowen.

00:28:11.727 --> 00:28:13.444
now he's supposed to be a seasoned knight.

00:28:13.500 --> 00:28:21.680
Yeah, having mentored Aynan for so long and us now supposed to be believing that he thinks Aynan is a lovely and beautiful boy, and it's just too far gone.

00:28:21.700 --> 00:28:25.579
It could be like the thing where they were friends, sort of in a way, so he was the teacher on.

00:28:25.579 --> 00:28:28.461
It could be like the thing where, like, they were friends, so it's sort of in a way, so he was, he was the teacher, he was teaching me how to fight.

00:28:28.461 --> 00:28:31.893
But because they were so closer in like, because they're closer in age, they could have been friends.

00:28:31.893 --> 00:28:42.983
Yeah, and because he was friends and he's teacher and he was a young knight like he, that could have been, like he could have only seen his friends in iron.

00:28:42.983 --> 00:28:46.836
And so when the dragon's like, oh no, this guy's got dark, he's like what are you talking about?

00:28:46.856 --> 00:28:58.671
he's my friend yeah and then that way, when, 12 years later, david Quaid how he looks and everything would be sorry, dennis Quaid how he looks and everything would be, would make sense.

00:28:58.671 --> 00:29:12.209
Make sense, yeah, that they look closer in age, where, because Dennis would then be, or Bowen would be only like five years older than both Kara and Aynan, yeah like, yeah, there is that sort of muddiness in the middle.

00:29:12.269 --> 00:29:15.429
And then there's the, the mentor relationship that he was for Aynan.

00:29:15.429 --> 00:29:24.542
Um, he definitely then goes and has like a student mentor relationship with Draco and then that's sort of the heart of the movie and I really like the fact that they become friends.

00:29:24.623 --> 00:29:38.067
But like the vehicle for that might not have been so great it was really quick and for someone who outright hates will's been to eight outright hate dragons to then become going and putting a warm blanket on him and sharing stories amongst the stars and like naming him and things.

00:29:38.346 --> 00:29:48.310
Yeah, it definitely seems very, very quick through that middle section, uh, and then obviously it gets to the end of the, the hero's journey, where the hero has to go through the supreme ordeal, which is like it's Draco's sacrifice.

00:29:48.310 --> 00:29:56.346
He has to basically kill his friend in order to vanquish the world of the ultimate evil, which is Aynan at this point, and he struggles to do that.

00:29:56.346 --> 00:30:03.929
So you do definitely see a return to form, like he returns back to how he was at the very start a knight of the old code and an honorable knight.

00:30:03.929 --> 00:30:15.710
And it's more epitomized in the scene we mentioned earlier, with him being in Avalon and, you know, re-quoting the old code lines.

00:30:15.598 --> 00:30:36.006
He definitely goes through that sort of transition, but again that sort of happens very, very quickly again and it all builds up to, you know, the return of the hero, which is when Draco goes to the stars and then Bowen is honored in a manner where he's like a selfless knight and you know, brother Gilbert says Kara and Bowen led the army of peasants into an era of freedom and prosperity after that.

00:30:36.006 --> 00:31:01.306
So he definitely does go through this hero's journey pattern with a little bit of mightiness in the middle, but I agree his transformation is abrupt and I also think at the start he's very much motivated by vengeance and revenge, as opposed to an injury like justice, like he's not trying to serve justice as a knight of the old code should, or as somebody who, you know, he's not trying to correct an injustice like he perceives it.

00:31:01.306 --> 00:31:02.569
He's actually being very vengeful.

00:31:02.569 --> 00:31:07.397
He's going out and killing all of the dragons because one of them hurt his beliefs.

00:31:07.397 --> 00:31:09.405
Yeah, which is not knightly.

00:31:10.286 --> 00:31:11.195
No, not at all.

00:31:11.195 --> 00:31:13.906
Yeah, the thing is, the whole thing is set up.

00:31:13.906 --> 00:31:17.558
He blames the dragon for Irons going bad.

00:31:17.558 --> 00:31:22.791
But how much does Bowen and Irons' mother do to stop this?

00:31:22.791 --> 00:31:26.150
Because it seems like Irons' mother does nothing.

00:31:27.660 --> 00:31:44.448
There would have been signs before he was that age that he was a bloody prick yeah, but like even, but even, like after the dragon heart thing, he just let him start slipping that way and like the mother, like, yes, he is now technically the king, but it's still the mother.

00:31:44.448 --> 00:31:46.373
The mother still was like the queen.

00:31:46.373 --> 00:31:53.828
Surely she had enough, I don't know, power or something to be like hey man this isn't cool.

00:31:53.990 --> 00:31:59.988
Yeah, it might be an idea to not, not, not enslave of people exactly like we can do this.

00:32:00.690 --> 00:32:09.734
Like it might take, might take a bit longer, but we can do this the right way by like hiring people and paying them to for the work, um, instead of, you know, enslaving a whole people.

00:32:09.914 --> 00:32:22.404
So yeah, I think he's definitely a flawed hero and sometimes that works in a story, but he's just a little bit inconsistent for me to to look at his character and be like, okay, like he's definitely going on this, this righteous hero journey where he slipped.

00:32:22.404 --> 00:32:24.230
He slips in the middle but he, he comes back through.

00:32:24.230 --> 00:32:30.270
But I think the way that he slips is absolutely converse to how his character is represented.

00:32:31.563 --> 00:32:36.167
Yeah, I think how they got from point A to point B had way too many Details along the way.

00:32:36.167 --> 00:32:36.730
Details, yeah.

00:32:37.842 --> 00:32:40.029
Too many dragon slaying along the way.

00:32:40.029 --> 00:32:42.426
All right, let's go to our real deal segment.

00:32:42.426 --> 00:32:46.690
All right, the real deal segment.

00:32:46.690 --> 00:32:49.692
All right.

00:32:49.692 --> 00:32:58.568
The real deal segment is where we randomly select a criteria or a lens to view the movie through and we discuss elements with the intention of finding out whether it can be rated positively or negatively.

00:32:58.568 --> 00:32:59.271
Each week.

00:32:59.271 --> 00:33:11.086
The names of these positive and negative criteria will reflect a fun element of the movie and we will range the topics from cinematography all the way to character development, villains, themes, score, all those sorts of things.

00:33:11.086 --> 00:33:20.608
So if something is good this week, brash, we're going to rate it as to the stars, to the stars, right, and if something is bad, we're going to name it.

00:33:20.608 --> 00:33:29.508
The oldest joke in the book, and probably one of the most dad jokiest lines in the whole entire Dragonheart movie, is the peasants are revolting because it's revolting.

00:33:29.528 --> 00:33:33.028
Yeah, because they're revolting and they're also just revolting.

00:33:33.200 --> 00:33:34.666
Yeah, they're rebels, but they're revolting.

00:33:34.666 --> 00:33:38.405
So let's generate our first piece of criteria for our Real Deal segment.

00:33:38.405 --> 00:33:42.127
Okay, and we have generated up the acting performances.

00:33:42.127 --> 00:33:43.873
Did you want to start with this Brash or did you want me to?

00:33:51.359 --> 00:33:51.740
Yeah, performances.

00:33:51.740 --> 00:33:53.005
Did you want to start with this brash or did you want me to?

00:33:53.005 --> 00:33:53.326
Yeah, I'll start.

00:33:53.326 --> 00:33:53.686
Yep, go for it.

00:33:53.686 --> 00:33:54.650
Um, I enjoyed the acting of pretty much everyone.

00:33:54.650 --> 00:33:56.977
Okay, everyone did an amazing job, like I can't even say, because for me all the characters were really good.

00:33:56.977 --> 00:34:01.345
I just think maybe the story let them down a little bit and possibly a bit of the writing.

00:34:01.345 --> 00:34:05.431
Yep, um, especially for paul dennis yes, he, yep.

00:34:05.431 --> 00:34:08.335
Especially for Paul Dennis yes, he got a bad rap for this one, absolutely.

00:34:08.335 --> 00:34:08.914
You know what I'm saying?

00:34:08.914 --> 00:34:15.855
Yeah, and I can understand why, because his character just seems so all over the place.

00:34:16.195 --> 00:34:17.498
Yep, especially with his accent.

00:34:17.498 --> 00:34:20.548
Yeah, like, at some point he's a little bit Irish.

00:34:20.548 --> 00:34:28.612
At some point I was wondering why he was the only American in a very British setting, and at other times I'm just like oh he's turned his pirate on.

00:34:28.632 --> 00:34:34.159
He's being a pirate right now it's for the pleasure but yeah, I think that giving me gold.

00:34:35.784 --> 00:34:40.362
I think it's so hard to act to nothing, which is what he had to do a lot of the time.

00:34:40.362 --> 00:35:01.309
A lot of his emotional scenes were pitted toward a cut out like a 10 foot dragon's head made from Henson Studio or just simply two tennis balls or a stick, and he was basically given the hardest job and some people say that he did well in regards to his job and some people said that he kind of dropped the ball.

00:35:01.309 --> 00:35:10.090
But I think that's also coupled with the fact that some people don't really like Bowen's character and sometimes people conflate the character and the actor together.

00:35:10.090 --> 00:35:13.824
He's definitely my least favorite, but unfortunately that's.

00:35:13.824 --> 00:35:15.588
He's a big part of the movie.

00:35:15.608 --> 00:35:21.331
He is a big part of the movie and unfortunately it is because of the way his character is written.

00:35:21.331 --> 00:35:25.266
I think it's a big part of why it seems so not great.

00:35:25.487 --> 00:35:32.188
Yeah, I'm wondering if it's more fluid in the novelization for the movie, because they obviously are allowed to to add more in and have more scenes.

00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:33.806
And then there'll be more.

00:35:33.806 --> 00:35:41.148
It's like Lord of the Rings there's more detail, yep, in it, whereas here it has to be condensed.

00:35:41.148 --> 00:35:50.309
Yeah, a little bit, cause I think that's the worst part about Bowen, because Bowen is such a big part of the movie and so much time happens between start to finish.

00:35:50.309 --> 00:35:53.067
But we have to see that in an hour and a half.

00:35:53.307 --> 00:35:53.909
Yeah, exactly.

00:35:53.929 --> 00:35:54.050
Yeah.

00:35:54.739 --> 00:35:56.847
And I think you know we were talking about King Einan before.

00:35:56.847 --> 00:36:03.463
He is a very sort of cartoonishly evil character, but I think he plays that well, yeah, and his is just straightforward, straightforward, exactly right.

00:36:03.463 --> 00:36:05.744
Let's talk about Sean Connery's performance as Draco.

00:36:05.744 --> 00:36:06.885
What are your thoughts on that?

00:36:07.706 --> 00:36:09.128
I love Sean Connery's performance.

00:36:09.128 --> 00:36:13.652
I think Sean Connery is a perfect choice for a dragon.

00:36:13.652 --> 00:36:17.396
I agree, he's regal in the way that he speaks.

00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:21.983
He's even played King Arthur before.

00:36:21.983 --> 00:36:30.543
He's played King Arthur and the Scottish accent and the Scottish dialect that he has a very recognisable voice but also very regal balances that humour and wisdom really well.

00:36:30.543 --> 00:36:35.246
And the way that they express his face on Draco is just like it's almost like he was on the screen.

00:36:35.246 --> 00:36:35.922
You know he was good.

00:36:36.463 --> 00:36:40.503
Yeah, 100% Patrick Stewart, who voiced the other Dragonheart movies.

00:36:40.503 --> 00:36:45.146
They always pick someone who's and I think this is a great choice.

00:36:45.146 --> 00:36:56.782
They always pick someone whose voice is either sort of unique or just that like patrick stewart, like recognizable recognizable but he's also very like um.

00:36:56.782 --> 00:37:00.628
If you've watched star trek and he's like so, it's very regal.

00:37:00.628 --> 00:37:04.481
His voice has that age and wisdom to it.

00:37:04.481 --> 00:37:13.047
Yep, patrick stewart's has that um sort of elegance and that um importance and, like the like, that dignity to it.

00:37:13.228 --> 00:37:14.110
Yep, yeah, it's almost.

00:37:14.110 --> 00:37:21.311
He embodies this, uh, this nobility, and for a fantasy setting, I feel very brave when I hear sean connery's voice.

00:37:21.311 --> 00:37:26.972
I guess is one way to think about it as well, and I, as we've said before, I love how he switches it up between his.

00:37:26.972 --> 00:37:47.206
He can be extremely ferocious and angry, as a dragon should be, because they are a wild and ferocious creature, but they've also got this sentimentality and softness and the fantastical sort of fantasy lore keepers in that sort of space, and Sean Connery does all of that in terms of the way that he sounds when you hear his voice.

00:37:47.206 --> 00:37:54.027
If he was actually alive now, I wish that he would do like sleep stories for the Calm app, because I would listen to that all day.

00:37:54.027 --> 00:37:56.186
Yes, you're drifting off to sleep.

00:37:56.186 --> 00:37:57.864
Sweet dreams, my pretty.

00:37:58.748 --> 00:38:11.893
I just yeah, but yeah, and that's the thing he brings to like the voices of things, unlike Patrick Stewart and John H, the thing he brings to like voices, the voices of things, um, unlike patrick stewart and john hurt, he has that one where.

00:38:11.893 --> 00:38:38.010
So patrick stewart being angry in a dragon's voice, like dragon, I don't, I couldn't really picture it, yeah, whereas sean connery, I can picture him being a ferocious dragon and then I can also picture him being sort of, um, that soft, kindhearted wisdom in it and he sort of brings that duality, whereas like, say, yeah, john Hurt, I can see him like even in the Merlin show, like his dragon is meant to be very like knowledgeable and that helping out Merlin.

00:38:38.010 --> 00:38:42.668
Yeah, there was a few times there where he gets angry, but it just doesn't really have the impact.

00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:45.045
He was 100% the draw card for this movie.

00:38:45.045 --> 00:38:48.708
I think when they were looking at casting somebody, they knew it had to be somebody with a recognizable voice.

00:38:48.708 --> 00:38:53.244
They knew it had to be an A-list actor because it also gave authenticity to what they were doing.

00:38:53.244 --> 00:38:54.927
They were doing something experimental.

00:38:54.927 --> 00:39:04.751
They were working with technology that had never been trialed, so if somebody was going to jump on board it had to be an A-list actor that people would come to the cinema to see Especially, come to the cinema to see Especially fantasy, exactly.

00:39:04.751 --> 00:39:28.443
And who better than Sean Connery, who had dipped his toe in the genre before, who has that professional atmosphere towards his acting and, according to sources as well, it did also say Sean Connery was very enthusiastic to appear in this movie because it was sort of cutting edge using different sorts of technology and, as I said before, he's very happy about the acting requirements of the job.

00:39:28.483 --> 00:39:30.047
He never had to go outside of the studio.

00:39:30.228 --> 00:39:31.291
Yeah, exactly so I think.

00:39:31.291 --> 00:39:32.762
Yeah, he definitely pulled it off.

00:39:32.762 --> 00:39:38.492
Another person I want to mention before we rate this is Caro, who's played by Dina Meyer.

00:39:38.893 --> 00:39:38.994
Yep.

00:39:39.240 --> 00:39:47.625
Very famous for playing Diz in Starship Troopers, I think for her in 1996, she was a very, very, very good portrayal of a female warrior on screen.

00:39:47.625 --> 00:39:57.291
Director Rob Cohen said that he needed to cast somebody who could believably wield beauty, you might say, where they're sort of slender and feminine and things like that.

00:39:57.291 --> 00:40:17.869
But I think they went the right direction with Kara in terms of her warrior nature but also like the heart that she brought to the movie as well.

00:40:17.869 --> 00:40:23.884
I think she did good and it's redheads yes brave like, really brave, Like any sort of.

00:40:25.347 --> 00:40:31.530
I think the only thing I would have liked more is if she had some sort of like Scottish accent slightly yep, yep.

00:40:31.530 --> 00:40:37.550
With the redhead Scottish accent I could be like 100%, be like damn, she's automatically a warrior to me in my mind.

00:40:37.550 --> 00:40:44.264
Yeah, yeah, see, and then, but it also, it's not a long again, it's so squished and condensed.

00:40:44.744 --> 00:40:51.188
But there is that part where she is, the little bow and arrow showing her how to wield two axes.

00:40:51.188 --> 00:40:58.905
Yep, and you can see at the start of the house she's like pulling a bit, like hitting him with the flaccid blades, not sort of getting the strikes.

00:40:58.905 --> 00:41:02.389
And then Bowen's like you're making it too difficult for yourself, fully mansplaining.

00:41:02.699 --> 00:41:03.900
Yeah, mansplaining.

00:41:04.442 --> 00:41:10.969
You're making it too difficult for yourself by just flailing around and trying to be all like suave and tricky and shit.

00:41:10.969 --> 00:41:13.954
Just be like you just need to survive.

00:41:13.954 --> 00:41:19.510
You need to kill and survive and it's like, just do it simply because you can get yourself killed otherwise.

00:41:19.510 --> 00:41:22.760
But then, yeah, she, in her own right, is so.

00:41:22.760 --> 00:41:30.222
I wish they had made her a little bit more warrior-like, because when she gets captured, she still becomes the damsel in distress again.

00:41:30.242 --> 00:41:38.885
She does, yeah, she does play that tropes on occasion too, and you know that's very common during the 90s and that's obviously something that movies are trying to sort of step away from now.

00:41:38.885 --> 00:41:40.405
But Does she kill?

00:41:40.405 --> 00:41:42.621
Yes, brock Brock.

00:41:42.802 --> 00:41:45.025
Yes, and I think that was fucking amazing, His last words.

00:41:45.106 --> 00:41:48.952
I noted this as well his last words were a girl, a girl, yeah, and he says it twice.

00:41:48.952 --> 00:41:50.474
He's like a girl, a girl.

00:41:50.860 --> 00:41:53.128
So I think they definitely the fact that he got killed by a girl.

00:41:53.148 --> 00:42:09.925
they knew what they were doing but her acting performance in that totally believable, as the fact that she was absolutely repulsed by him.

00:42:09.925 --> 00:42:11.001
Because how could you not be when?

00:42:11.001 --> 00:42:15.050
They're wearing a wig like that so I think she did a good job too.

00:42:15.050 --> 00:42:17.067
Let's give our final verdicts on this one.

00:42:17.067 --> 00:42:19.672
Is it to the stars or is it?

00:42:19.672 --> 00:42:20.679
The peasants are revolting.

00:42:20.679 --> 00:42:21.260
What do you think?

00:42:21.561 --> 00:42:30.911
I have to say To the Stars Yep, with a slight Revolting Bowen, revolting Maybe, just a, you know, to the Stars revo.

00:42:31.291 --> 00:42:33.072
Yep, yep, yep, I like that.

00:42:33.072 --> 00:42:34.735
I'm probably exactly the same.

00:42:34.735 --> 00:42:41.344
I think it's a To the Stars for all of the characters, boosted very much by Sean Connery's voice performance.

00:42:41.344 --> 00:42:43.570
I think the only downside to it is Dennis Quaid's performance as Bowen.

00:42:48.019 --> 00:42:51.527
I think, uh, yeah, that's probably the only more, not so much that he's about active.

00:42:51.688 --> 00:43:00.409
I think it's just, unfortunately, how his character is written all right, let's see what is up next on our generator.

00:43:00.409 --> 00:43:03.987
All right, so it's come up with the plot structure and the analysis and we kind of went through this one.

00:43:03.987 --> 00:43:07.954
We're talking about bowen and also iron, and so we might just touch on it briefly.

00:43:07.954 --> 00:43:09.780
I think this definitely has a three-act structure.

00:43:09.780 --> 00:43:20.434
There is the start and the beginning, where we obviously get introduced to all the characters in the world, and then in the middle it gets that little bit muddy that we talked about and then towards the end it it starts to pick sort of back up and sharpen.

00:43:20.434 --> 00:43:23.282
Uh, but those transitions happen very, very quickly.

00:43:23.282 --> 00:43:27.711
So I think for the structure there's also quite a number of holes, like we were talking about before.

00:43:28.514 --> 00:43:51.746
That definitely served to move the story along, most notably the king writing off on his own, and then also towards the end, when everybody's conveniently placed in the right time and the right place to go and rescue Draco, and then also the absolute story element where you know King Einan's defeated and destroyed, so therefore everybody that's in his employ immediately disappear.

00:43:51.746 --> 00:43:57.146
There's no other revolting after that or no competition after that.

00:43:57.146 --> 00:43:59.306
It's just like a convenient sort of plot device.

00:43:59.306 --> 00:44:04.923
So I think for me it's got this weak structure but it does have some moments of emotional core.

00:44:04.923 --> 00:44:13.146
I think that is definitely the strength of the movie, where that emotional core sits between bowen and draco and you know that epic send-off at the end.

00:44:13.467 --> 00:44:34.927
I will talk about that because I as a kid I cried and even when I was watching it recently, as a 35 year old man, like I get this thing where I get tinglys and like goosebumps and stuff whenever I hear that soundtrack and that To the Stars, and I think that ending was really well paid off and that just is a testament to Rob Cohen's direction in terms of how to finish a story.

00:44:34.927 --> 00:44:41.528
So I think for me, I think as a consistent sort of approach, I'm probably going to have to say it's the Peasants Are Revolting for the story.

00:44:41.528 --> 00:44:42.471
For me, what about you?

00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:44.306
Yeah, I have to say the same.

00:44:44.306 --> 00:44:51.208
So what I thought Dragonheart was in my head was not.

00:44:51.208 --> 00:44:54.277
I rewatched in my head the story made sense.

00:44:54.277 --> 00:44:57.304
The overarching story, yeah, I get it.

00:44:57.304 --> 00:45:07.530
Yeah, the idea is good, yeah, but the bits and pieces in between it just make it make like, yeah, the whole middle of that movie I was sort of like going that doesn't make sense.

00:45:07.530 --> 00:45:08.992
Yep, that doesn't make sense.

00:45:08.992 --> 00:45:10.264
Yep, that doesn't make sense.

00:45:10.264 --> 00:45:11.168
I'm like you.

00:45:11.168 --> 00:45:15.438
You just deathly hate these people or hate these dragons.

00:45:15.438 --> 00:45:17.246
Yet you're gonna be friends with one.

00:45:17.246 --> 00:45:19.172
Wait till it scars down.

00:45:19.172 --> 00:45:30.148
You're meant to really hate these things and then, when you find out that it's a dragon with half the heart, you're like, oh, okay, yeah just brushes over that fact and it's like, yeah, my thing with that is he.

00:45:30.268 --> 00:45:38.626
He spoke to this dragon in the cave when it was giving iron in his heart how do you not know the voice, recognize the voice and also how many of the dragons that he is killing is speaking to him.

00:45:38.626 --> 00:45:40.710
So how many does he have a little conversation with?

00:45:41.661 --> 00:45:44.146
um, I don't know how that that's a bit of plausible.

00:45:44.146 --> 00:45:52.146
And if he's trying to find the one that, like that, has the heart but he kills these dragons doesn't get no dragons can talk because he's talked about before.

00:45:52.146 --> 00:45:55.338
He doesn't get any information off of them, he just kills them.

00:45:55.358 --> 00:45:58.938
He just kills them and it's like, oh, maybe he checks afterwards and looks to see if they've got half a heart or not.

00:45:58.958 --> 00:46:01.003
Yeah, Cut out the heart and see if it's there.

00:46:01.103 --> 00:46:01.730
All right.

00:46:01.730 --> 00:46:02.835
So what are you giving this for the?

00:46:02.956 --> 00:46:04.684
Oh yeah, peasants are revolting.

00:46:05.047 --> 00:46:12.054
All right, very good, so we're in agreeance of that.

00:46:12.054 --> 00:46:20.460
All right, a musical score that is produced by Randy Edelman, I believe, and to me I'm going to say it right off the bat this is to the stars.

00:46:20.460 --> 00:46:24.083
I have been listening to this in my car for the last two days.

00:46:24.083 --> 00:46:27.144
As you know, I am a lover of orchestral music.

00:46:27.144 --> 00:46:36.461
I think that when we're supposed to like, for example, bowens, I think that the score for Bowen does a better job of portraying his character than the character does.

00:46:36.483 --> 00:46:48.717
because you know there's that sort of playfulness and that knightly sort of virtue through the start, where it's kind of the timpani orchestra sort of playing, and then when it gets to the really gravity-filled part, that's that brave, honour and code-filled.

00:46:48.717 --> 00:46:57.920
Knight Draco's theme that plays towards the end when he's flying off into the stars, just packs you with emotional resonance and that's exactly what a film's score should do.

00:46:58.331 --> 00:47:10.481
it should be something that guides the emotionality of the film and you know we talked about highlight the yeah, highlight the moments exactly we talked about, like what moments you should feel something in and what moments you should not feel something in and, in that way, what you should be feeling.

00:47:10.481 --> 00:47:13.014
So we talked before about how there was.

00:47:13.014 --> 00:47:22.592
There's that line that I said before where we remember how movies make us feel, not what happens in the movie, and when we remember what makes, like what parts of a movie makes us feel a certain way.

00:47:22.592 --> 00:47:32.532
It's always coupled with a soundtrack element or a musical element, and I feel like this is probably the best part of this movie for me, apart from Sean Connery voicing the dragon.

00:47:32.532 --> 00:47:34.557
The score for me is fantastic.

00:47:34.940 --> 00:47:48.751
A couple of nights this week I fell asleep to the finale soundtrack and just because it was so, it's so beautiful and it's so just resonant of the story and it takes me to like a fantasy place and it fills me with feelings of nostalgia from going to the movies with my grandmother.

00:47:48.751 --> 00:47:50.335
It's just that's what music should do.

00:47:50.335 --> 00:47:53.351
Yeah, so for me this is a very much and very strong to the stars.

00:47:53.351 --> 00:47:53.771
What about you?

00:47:54.432 --> 00:47:56.657
um, yeah, no, I'm the same to the stars.

00:47:56.657 --> 00:48:15.978
Some of my favorite ones are when the botched dragon killing happens and he falls into the lake and then they start the chase between the cannibal villagers and the rest of them and it's sort of that cat and mouse sort of playful, sort of trilling sort of stuff.

00:48:16.539 --> 00:48:32.612
And like my brother Gilbert's like running around um trying to like persuade them not to do it and like that, just the backing music to that is just yeah, love that kind of shit and um, especially the music played when Bollandre doing his yes, his oath.

00:48:32.612 --> 00:48:32.972
His oath.

00:48:33.012 --> 00:48:41.838
Yeah, really good and resounding and like full of gravity in that moment as well, like you can tell that that's, that's a really powerful character.

00:48:42.057 --> 00:48:49.181
Yeah, like you can tell that that this is his, like this is his final form yes, yes, yeah, exactly, that's a good way to put it.

00:48:49.362 --> 00:48:55.646
So, yeah, I think, I think that the, the is absolutely just to the stars for me.

00:48:55.925 --> 00:48:56.987
Yeah, definitely to the stars.

00:48:57.347 --> 00:48:59.467
All right, that is the end of our Real Deal segment.

00:48:59.467 --> 00:49:06.644
Now we're going to move into our most valuable takeaways.

00:49:06.644 --> 00:49:13.056
All right, so our most valuable takeaways, where we discuss the most important thing we learned from the media that we have watched.

00:49:13.056 --> 00:49:15.856
It could be something that extends our knowledge or something that we can apply to our life.

00:49:15.856 --> 00:49:21.173
It can be as simple as a piece of dialogue that stuck with us, or a thematic and moral lesson, or a technical piece of cinema.

00:49:21.173 --> 00:49:33.195
I might start with this one, the thing that I was trying to pull like a moral lesson from the movie, and I really couldn't get there, because I think the moral lessons I was trying to find were coming from Bowen's character, and he's just too scattered for me.

00:49:33.275 --> 00:49:41.130
So I think the thing that intrigued me most about this movie was the fact that there is that massive difference between the nostalgic childhood viewing and the reality of the rewatch.

00:49:41.130 --> 00:49:47.815
So for me I think you know the reasons I tried to look at the reasons why I absolutely love this as a child, and it was.

00:49:47.815 --> 00:49:50.510
It was because, you know, there was that hero's journey for Bowen.

00:49:50.510 --> 00:49:57.081
There was somebody that I knew was the good guy and somebody that I knew was the bad guy and that is very good for a child watching a movie.

00:49:57.081 --> 00:50:00.396
You know I have somebody to back and I have somebody who I'm supposed to hate.

00:50:00.396 --> 00:50:16.317
There is also a wise and very, extremely lovable dragon, to the point where when I was watching this usually in movies like this, I do turn them off when my children walk in the room, but when, like, draco was on the TV, my son was absolutely enamored by this dragon and my daughter called it a ra, because that's what she calls dinosaurs.

00:50:16.317 --> 00:50:29.659
So it's like it's that enamoring, magical thing and for somebody as young as you know six, for me, when I watch this and you're seeing a talking dragon on the screen, it's magical and it's it's really just pulls that sort of mythical vibe from it.

00:50:30.161 --> 00:50:35.856
And I think there is also some very clear moral lessons in this movie as well, which is why it hits so nostalgically.

00:50:35.856 --> 00:50:48.181
You know, there is the honor of the knights, there's the corruption of Aynan and the king, there is the sacrifice that is played by Draco and there's just that good and evil in a fantasy sort of setting in the story.

00:50:48.181 --> 00:50:50.858
And then also the CGI at the time absolutely spectacular.

00:50:50.858 --> 00:50:57.679
Now, like, probably not so much, but at the time it was revolutionary and spectacular, I think it was.

00:50:57.679 --> 00:51:08.469
Now, looking at it, you're very critical and you're looking at it through a very critical lens, having watched lots of movies from then on.

00:51:08.670 --> 00:51:12.115
But, as I said before, I still felt at the ending the same way I felt when I was a kid, when I watched this, and that's what movies are supposed to do.

00:51:12.115 --> 00:51:25.905
So for me, my most valuable takeaway is the fact that sometimes, sometimes when you're watching a movie, I feel like that sometimes seeing a perfect film isn't the best technically.

00:51:25.905 --> 00:51:33.268
Sometimes a perfect film for you is like a meaningful one, or one that shaped your imagination, or one that really pushed you into storytelling.

00:51:33.268 --> 00:51:36.079
And you know I've done a Dungeons and Dragons podcast.

00:51:36.079 --> 00:51:37.275
I've loved fantasy all my life.

00:51:37.369 --> 00:51:45.677
This has influenced me, like this dragon movie in 1996 with Sean Connery, with shonky CGI and a really scatty hero played by Dennis Quaid.

00:51:45.677 --> 00:51:46.920
Like it influenced me.

00:51:46.920 --> 00:51:48.791
And it's not the best movie, but it's still one that I love.

00:51:48.791 --> 00:51:51.516
So that's why I found it really hard to rate, which we'll get to very soon.

00:51:51.516 --> 00:52:00.050
But my most valuable takeaway is that is that you know, sometimes a movie has flaws, but an imperfect film can leave a lasting impression.

00:52:00.050 --> 00:52:05.586
Perseverance, love it, so get through this movie even though it's bad um.

00:52:06.548 --> 00:52:12.099
I think perseverance um plays a big part in pretty much all of the characters in this.

00:52:12.099 --> 00:52:15.610
So cara caras is to um.

00:52:15.610 --> 00:52:27.336
Even though all of her people are enslaved, her father's enslaved, she still tries to get people moving, to get them to rise up to stand up for themselves, even when her father is killed.

00:52:27.336 --> 00:52:31.347
She then still, instead of she perseveres.

00:52:31.389 --> 00:52:38.811
She perseveres and keeps going, tries to kill Iron and gets captured, escapes, tries to find someone else who can help her build an army to take on iron.

00:52:38.811 --> 00:52:40.898
And she keeps going, even bowen.

00:52:40.898 --> 00:52:51.362
So there's a line which I found in the movie where bowen says to draco I no longer try to change the world, dragon, I just try to get by in it.

00:52:51.362 --> 00:52:54.956
And draco says yes, well, it's better than death, I suppose.

00:52:55.958 --> 00:53:00.114
And Bowen then has a shot at Draco with oh is it?

00:53:00.114 --> 00:53:02.079
I should think you welcomed death.

00:53:02.079 --> 00:53:05.900
You know the last of your kind, all your friends dead, hunted, wherever you go.

00:53:05.900 --> 00:53:08.514
And then Draco, do you delight in reminding me?

00:53:08.514 --> 00:53:10.375
Yes, not, I do long for death, but fear it.

00:53:10.375 --> 00:53:15.855
And then Bowen says why, aside from your misery, what's to lose?

00:53:15.855 --> 00:53:35.356
And Draco's like my soul, yeah, but I I feel like like both of those guys in that moment, like they're both just trying to get by and the like balance had his world shattered, is like his oath is dashed yeah, he's put trust in somebody and it was turned out to be a shitty idea sh idea.

00:53:35.476 --> 00:53:50.253
And now the person who he was meant to help and meant to lead to be a good person and a good king is doing the complete opposite and, as a failure, his only motivation now is just to get by but keep going.

00:53:50.253 --> 00:53:57.760
Because there's just something in the back of his mind that he's like no, you can't just give up, you've got to keep going.

00:53:57.760 --> 00:54:04.880
And then eventually, that's when he like, meets Draco and then eventually meets Kara, and eventually they rise up and eventually they right the wrong.

00:54:04.880 --> 00:54:06.115
That happened years ago.

00:54:06.115 --> 00:54:08.458
And the same with Draco.

00:54:08.458 --> 00:54:13.195
Like, yeah, like, as Bond said, like all your, your whole entire race is dead.

00:54:13.195 --> 00:54:14.400
I've killed them all, yeah.

00:54:21.889 --> 00:54:22.090
Um is dead.

00:54:22.090 --> 00:54:22.512
I've killed them all.

00:54:22.512 --> 00:54:23.414
Yeah, um, you've got nothing left to live for.

00:54:23.414 --> 00:54:24.579
He's like, yeah, it's true, but he's like what are you doing?

00:54:24.579 --> 00:54:25.561
Because I fear it, I, this stuff I can live for.

00:54:25.561 --> 00:54:28.851
There's like his existence has meaning, not just because he's alive, but also because, like he is the last one, he, I am the last one.

00:54:28.851 --> 00:54:37.858
Uh, I do, I do, um, but yeah, I think that's a really powerful quote that you pulled out there, because it shows both of those characters connecting on a really emotional level.

00:54:37.978 --> 00:54:59.878
That couldn't be more different, really, and both of them having that united view of persevering through a very tough time yeah, because both both of them at that time realistically don't have anything to live for and they don't have anyone and they don't have anyone live for, don't have anything to live for, but they're still both willing to fight tooth and nail to stay alive when they both fight each other.

00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:01.400
They've got like.

00:55:01.400 --> 00:55:02.603
They've realistically got nothing like.

00:55:02.603 --> 00:55:15.255
For 12 years, balan's been chasing his tail trying to save Aynan from something that he really honestly couldn't save him from, and Draco's the last of his kind and he's a male.

00:55:15.737 --> 00:55:18.682
Yep, so there's no future prospects.

00:55:18.682 --> 00:55:23.679
No more unless they can become a seahorse Until you watch Dragonheart New Beginning True, true, true, true and there's a secret baby.

00:55:23.679 --> 00:55:24.621
Yeah, there's a secret baby.

00:55:25.010 --> 00:55:31.373
But yeah, and they've both got really nothing going for them, but they still fight tooth and nail to survive each other.

00:55:31.373 --> 00:55:35.338
And then eventually they're like, oh man, we've got friends.

00:55:35.338 --> 00:55:56.355
And then it's like, hey, as your friend, you need to kill me, yeah, and that sort of brings in that two people that have got nothing coming together to create a bond and then unfortunately, at the end which makes it so powerful having to sever that bond for the good of mankind, yeah, that bond for the good of mankind.

00:55:56.375 --> 00:56:23.353
Yeah, and yeah, I think that that severing comes at the like the sacrifice of the self but obviously the betterment of everybody else, and I think it also those two characters both believed that that was the right thing to do because of, even though they were so different, as we said, they were drawn together through this perseverance, but they also had a shared vision of the old code, Him being a creature of the old code and him being a knight of the old code.

00:56:23.353 --> 00:56:29.835
Yeah, I think that that's a really good takeaway in terms of perseverance, because both and all characters in that movie definitely exhibit it.

00:56:29.835 --> 00:56:30.617
Good job.

00:56:31.094 --> 00:56:40.702
Brash, I do want to say that scene when he renews his oath when I was watching it and then when Draco comes back out for me for some reason, I thought that Draco was saying the voice, saying the voice.

00:56:40.742 --> 00:56:43.054
I thought that as a kid yeah, as a kid, I thought that too.

00:56:43.054 --> 00:56:45.382
And then I found out it was actually like the voice of.

00:56:45.382 --> 00:56:45.806
King Arthur.

00:56:45.885 --> 00:56:55.318
Yeah, in the commentary it is the voice of King Arthur but I thought for sure, for some reason I thought it been Sean Connery as his King Arthur character.

00:56:55.318 --> 00:56:55.800
Yeah, yeah.

00:56:56.039 --> 00:56:57.742
His might defends the weak.

00:56:57.742 --> 00:56:58.423
No, we would have known.

00:56:58.764 --> 00:57:06.617
Yeah, for some reason I thought it was him, but I thought he was downplaying his accent in it, but I still thought he was the one voicing it.

00:57:06.617 --> 00:57:08.155
All right, let's rate it.

00:57:10.690 --> 00:57:13.400
Okay, brash, this is the fandom portals on a board.

00:57:13.400 --> 00:57:23.494
This is where we rate our movies and place them on our letterbox on a board.

00:57:23.494 --> 00:57:25.059
This is where we rate our movies and place them on our letterbox on a board.

00:57:25.059 --> 00:57:26.442
The board can be followed and tracked on letterbox at fandom portals.

00:57:26.442 --> 00:57:28.728
Uh, so far, the leading movie is the crow, which has an average of 4.25 from Brash and myself's rating.

00:57:28.728 --> 00:57:32.338
Uh, we both give this movie a score out of five and we take the average to see where it will sit.

00:57:32.338 --> 00:57:38.512
So, as I said, this is a very hard watch for me, or a hard rating for me, because you're really picking.

00:57:38.512 --> 00:57:52.019
I'm picking myself whether I'm going to rate a movie highly because it has made me feel a lot and I have a lot of nostalgia attached to it, or whether I'm going to give it a realistic score in terms of its technical how it actually holds up.

00:57:52.079 --> 00:57:52.961
How it actually holds up.

00:57:52.961 --> 00:57:55.161
That's what I'm struggling with.

00:57:55.161 --> 00:57:57.338
I was going to say I'll let you go first.

00:57:59.389 --> 00:58:11.456
Sorry, two and a half okay because I think the two and a half is purely the um, like most of the actors and acting, the score and um, how.

00:58:11.456 --> 00:58:16.572
Even though it's it's rough, the visuals are still, for that time, really good.

00:58:16.572 --> 00:58:19.701
The story for me is what let it down.

00:58:19.701 --> 00:58:22.478
There are good story beats, like the ending really nice.

00:58:22.478 --> 00:58:24.115
The start, it was all right.

00:58:25.170 --> 00:58:29.780
Bits and pieces in the middle were good, yeah, moments of heartfelt and awesome and awesome.

00:58:30.610 --> 00:58:34.873
Draco singing good the fake killing yeah, Risen up.

00:58:34.873 --> 00:58:36.791
Kara good Falling into the marsh good yeah.

00:58:36.791 --> 00:58:39.737
Rizanuk Kara Good Falling into the marsh Good, good, yeah.

00:58:39.737 --> 00:58:49.726
But there's so many other parts where I was like, for me it's just forgettable, and I think that's why the story in my head was different to what I remember, because I think so, yes, two and a half for me.

00:58:50.048 --> 00:58:50.289
All right.

00:58:50.289 --> 00:59:04.304
So if I was to rate this with my heart, I would give it five out of five, but I think I will stick in the vein of our podcast and I'll probably give it a three, because I think that I cannot underappreciate the CGI at the time.

00:59:04.304 --> 00:59:06.998
I know, looking at it now, a lot of people do have some gripes with it.

00:59:07.139 --> 00:59:07.519
It was great.

00:59:07.730 --> 00:59:22.463
Yeah, but I think at the time just to animate Draco's lips in the way that they did, and not everything matches the words, but it is revolutionary for the time, and trying to mimic a human's mouth onto a dragon-shaped skull is very difficult and it pulls off.

00:59:22.463 --> 00:59:25.579
They pull it off, not to mention the flying sequences across the sky.

00:59:25.579 --> 00:59:31.929
They replaced a plane, they flew over a plane and then they replaced that plane with Draco.

00:59:31.929 --> 00:59:35.920
I think that technologically it is absolutely profound.

00:59:35.920 --> 00:59:37.757
Sean Connery's performance awesome.

00:59:37.757 --> 00:59:40.074
Technologically it is absolutely profound.

00:59:40.074 --> 00:59:40.818
Sean Connery's performance awesome.

00:59:40.818 --> 00:59:43.250
The good versus evil and the simplicity of that story is something that's awesome for a family-friendly fantasy film.

00:59:43.250 --> 00:59:47.119
And yeah, as we said, there's some story elements in the middle act that don't fit.

00:59:47.119 --> 00:59:52.418
Some of the acting is a little bit choppy as well, and then, yeah, there's just some beats that don't quite fit it.

00:59:52.418 --> 00:59:53.360
So for me it's a three.

00:59:53.360 --> 00:59:55.164
For Brash it's a a 2.5.

00:59:55.164 --> 00:59:56.545
Let's see where it sits.

00:59:56.545 --> 01:00:02.692
All right, so that puts dragon heart at the 10th position, which means it still sits in the top 10 of the fandom portals on a board, which is awesome.

01:00:02.692 --> 01:00:06.661
Top 10 is nothing to be shy of, considering that we have 27 episodes out.

01:00:06.661 --> 01:00:20.985
Not too bad, um, and then you know, maybe in the future it'll remain in the top 10, we'll see, but uh, definitely, if you like fantasy films and you want something to show your kids when they're about, you know, seven to twelve, it's probably hitting that age range, I think.

01:00:20.985 --> 01:00:23.731
Yeah, I think that that is a really good score for it.

01:00:23.751 --> 01:00:25.418
All right, so let's do our sign-offs.

01:00:25.418 --> 01:00:29.012
Okay, this has been the phantom portals podcast.

01:00:29.012 --> 01:00:47.958
We want to thank you guys for joining us, as always, and if you wanted to add a viewing choice to our communities watch list, then you can do so on Letterboxd and you can also join us on Threads and Instagram and Reddit, where you can put those suggestions in or even just comment on some of the posts that we put up asking for your opinions, because sometimes we read them out on the show.

01:00:47.958 --> 01:00:52.275
We want to thank Mike again from Virginia in USA for sending us that fan mail.

01:00:52.275 --> 01:01:02.889
If you're a person that has a long form question or if you want to send us a movie recommendation on emails, then you can do so at our email address, which is fandom portals at gmailcom.

01:01:02.889 --> 01:01:07.043
All right, that is us from the fandom portals podcast, aaron, signing out to the stars.

01:01:07.103 --> 01:01:11.016
Brush to the stars well, thanks for joining us and hope you enjoyed the episode.

01:01:11.016 --> 01:01:15.373
So, yeah, now down on our podcast, we'll be talking about gabriel.

01:01:15.373 --> 01:01:23.556
Uh, for those who know what's about, it's about the struggles between good and evil, between heaven and hell, on our little mortal plane that is Earth.

01:01:23.556 --> 01:01:24.679
Keep a lookout for that one.

01:01:24.679 --> 01:01:31.422
I personally like that movie, and it's one that I suggested that we have a look at, or Aaron to have a look at, because I've seen it and he hasn't.

01:01:32.512 --> 01:01:36.014
Yes, so definitely go in and do your homework for next week, guys.

01:01:36.014 --> 01:01:39.097
That is Gabriel we're going to be looking at.

01:01:39.097 --> 01:01:40.045
But yeah, thank you so much for joining us guys.

01:01:40.045 --> 01:01:42.795
We really do appreciate it and we'll catch you guys later.

01:01:42.795 --> 01:01:48.289
Cheers, cheers, cheers.